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Decision Time... Trubor or Czechmate? Opinions Requested!


scottrallye

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I'm officially making the move to (as I've read many other open shooters call it) "The Dark Side".

A Little Background:

I've been shooting Limited Major for about 14 months, starting with a Glock 35, and switching to a CZ 75 Tactical Sport back in April. My life can pretty much be defined in two parts: life before my Tactical Sport, and life after my Tactical Sport. I've posted plenty of pics and info in the CZ pic threads, so I won't go into any more detail than saying I've made most of the "upgrades" (you could argue the TS doesn't need any) you can make via the Custom Shop, and some grip/frame modification and Cerakoting. The gun has been phenomenally reliable and shoots soooo good. So naturally, since I have an awesome pistol I love, it's time to buy another.

I had initially planned on shooting Limited for another year, but as this year was wrapping up, I got impatient and decided it would be WAY more fun to just take the plunge. I've put aside just over $3,000 at this point, and I'm ready to make a purchase. I looked at all kinds of options, and I've whittled it down to a Czechmate... or an STI Trubor. I'm probably 90/10 on my choice.

The Czechmate is an obvious choice for me for a LOT of reasons:

  • It's built on the exact same gun I'm shooting currently. Aside from learning to pick up the dot and a much different recoil impulse, I would theoretically have a shorter learning curve, and going back and forth from Limited to Open would be easy.
  • All the parts and upgrades I have for my TS (mag extensions, extended safety, etc.) could transfer back and forth between the two guns.
  • It's an awesome value. I wouldn't need to purchase additional mags, etc.
  • My TS is so phenomenally reliable (and I have a lot of working knowledge of the platform) and I can't help but assume the Czechmate would be as well.
  • I want to shoot 9mm Major, and these forums seem to indicate the Czechmate runs very well in 9mm Major.

An STI 2011 is obviously enticing for a number of reasons, but these are the major considerations that still have me on the fence:

  • Absolutely ridiculous amount of aftermarket support, knowledge, and market share in shooting sports.
  • Based on the survey data that USPSA published in Front Sight from the 2014 Nationals, everyone and their mom shoots the 2011 platform, including the most successful shooters in the sport.
  • Therefore, they MUST be awesome... right?

However, I have also heard a fair amount of negative things about some of the (arguably) "lower end" STI's like the Trubor that you don't hear about in custom 2011's, Infinities, etc. I won't get into the things I've heard (and witnessed at matches) but I do have a silly belief that spending this kind of money on a competition gun means it should run and run and run.

Based on the background I provided, can you guys give me some input on my choice? If you think the 2011 is the platform to go with, please explain to me why. Basically, I'm buying a Czechmate unless some experienced STI owners can convince me here that the Trubor (or similar) is the better choice.

One last thing: I know spending some more $$$ can get me a 2011 that will run like a sewing machine. However, at this point in my life, $3k is what I have to work with. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to shooting a used 2011 open gun, but they seem to be in pretty high demand, and I don't want to sit around too long waiting for that "perfect deal".

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I shoot a Tactical Sport and Czechmate. I also have custom 2011 in 40 and 9mm that I shoot limited and 3 gun with.. I feel you pain on making a decision. My preference would be the Czechmate since you have a Tac Sport, for all the reasons you mentioned. Life is good if those are the decisions you need to make at this point in your life.

IMG_0668_zpsxafpgpl2.jpg

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I've bucked the trends in the past...

Single Stack .38 super when the first of the high caps showed up...

A Caspian frame high cap open gun when the 2011 was available

Para Hi Cap Limited gun in .45 rather that .40....

I'm done bucking trends. Could NOT get mags for the Caspian AT ALL for a very long time. Same now with the Para!

I finally - this month - bought an STI DVC Limited in .40. Needed mags, 3 days later MBX mags on my porch. :D THERE IS A REASON so many folks shoot the 2011 :D

What's the upside to bucking the trend?

Get a STI/CK/PT based gun and enjoy having all the aftermarket support. :D

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there have been a number of broken barrels in the older Czechmate design and now they have had to beef up that area with a newer barrel design....I would stick with the more proven STI and its endless supply of parts/accessories......for $3000 or barely more you can find a little used custom STI Open gun , for example for only $3300 there is a brand new STI DVC 9Major just came up on the Classifieds here giving you all the "bells and whistles" of a custom Open gun instead of the plainer Trubor (I believe 1st, 3rd and 4th at US Nationals this year ran STI DVCs)..............just my 2 cents (and I have owned one of the first Czechmates around having gone from various CZ production guns and Tactical Sport Limited ones to Open as I loved how they fit my smaller hands),, decided as far as customizing and Open guns went the STI/SV platform was the way to go and am happy I went that route

Edited by race1911
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Having never owned or shot a CZ I am asking this question out of pure curiosity, what round capacity will the available big stick magazines hold?

29 with the czc basepad.

If you have a use for non compensated configuration of the Czechmate (3 gun etc) I'd go with that. if it's only going to be used for open then the trubor.

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I would stick with what I'm most familiar - in Your Case, the Cz.

We have a Master level shooter, locally, who started out with a Cz, and

he did Great with it. :bow:

He's since switched to a 2011, but he did very well with his Cz.

When you're ready, you might also want to switch over - but Nothing

wrong with a Cz. :cheers:

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Go the czechmate. That was switching between your limited gun and oped gun will be natural. If you go 2011 open I say sell the TS too and go 2011 limited.

But if you like steel frame guns and pivoting triggers and the smaller grip shape....stick with the CZ platform. The CZ clone seems to go alright for that bloke Eric something-or-other. ... :)

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I've bucked the trends in the past...

Single Stack .38 super when the first of the high caps showed up...

A Caspian frame high cap open gun when the 2011 was available

Para Hi Cap Limited gun in .45 rather that .40....

I'm done bucking trends. Could NOT get mags for the Caspian AT ALL for a very long time. Same now with the Para!

I finally - this month - bought an STI DVC Limited in .40. Needed mags, 3 days later MBX mags on my porch. :D THERE IS A REASON so many folks shoot the 2011 :D

What's the upside to bucking the trend?

Get a STI/CK/PT based gun and enjoy having all the aftermarket support. :D

+1

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I had a tac sport, czechmate, and a custom 2011. the czechmate was sold and I kept the other 2. with the svi signature grip on the 2011, it feels smaller in the hand than the tac sport with the waffle removed. one thing that's nice is they point almost exactly the same when doing the blind draw test.

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USPSA is full of shooters, tinkerers, reloaders, and collectors, which one are you?

If you're a shooter, someone who dryfires, reads books, and is generally driven to win matches and get better, the Czechmate will serve you well. You can just buy it, figure out a load and shoot it.

The biggest downside is that it's heavy (seven ounces more than your TS); some guys pay good money to add steel grips to their 2011s to make them as heavy as the CM, so there must be a market for Open guns close to 50oz, but I personally prefer them closer to 40oz.

The Trubore is lighter, but still feels heavy because of the steel comp/bull barrel.

As I'm sure you can tell, I'm a tinkerer and I wouldn't be happy with either.

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Question would be kneelingatlas, what open gun do you enjoy shooting most . obviously you shot many. Very nice collection

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

My preference is based primarily on novelty, they're all great guns, but whichever one I'm working on at the moment is generally my favorite.

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I'm going to have to somewhat disagree with my friend here:

If you're a shooter, someone who dryfires, reads books, and is generally driven to win matches and get better, the Czechmate will serve you well. You can just buy it, figure out a load and shoot it.

While the Czechmate will be far better than say, a Glock open gun, I would strongly recommend you pick up a Trubor, or even a used custom in your price range. In fact you could pick up a used 2011, and have a smith give it a once over, and you will have an excellent pistol. Alternately, a new STI with a warranty could be a great choice, as they will fix issues with the gun (it just might take a trip back to STI to get it figured out). Honestly there is so much out there, and if you encounter an issue at a match chances are someone on your squad can help you figure it out. They are also much easier to disassemble, work on, etc.

You have seen the nationals survey, and if you want to continually improve you will likely come to a point where you wonder, "is my X (alternate platform gun) holding me back?". If you go with the 2011, you will never have to ask that question. Countless championships have been won in the US with the 2011, including several National championships with a Trubor.

The other thing about a 2011 is you have so many options for balancing the gun in terms of weight. If it feels nose heavy, you can add an aluminum guide rod. If you want more weight in the heel of the gun, you can add a steel mainspring housing, a steel magwell, or even steel grips. They also last quite some time. On a recent Steve Anderson podcast he talked about replacing his Caspian open gun after the slide cracked, after a quarter million rounds.

The Czechmate is a fine gun- it sounds like perhaps they have resolved the barrel/slide stop issues. I've witnessed several broken CZ slide stops on production guns at 130 PF, so it doesn't give me warm fuzzies about shooting one at major over the long haul. Kneelingatlas loaned me a Tanfoglio limited gun for a match and I didn't really shoot it any worse than my 2011, so I don't know that you would shoot drills substantially better or worse with either gun.

At any given match in the US it would be rare for someone to win high overall with anything besides a 2011. For me, knowing that I am going to be pouring my time, attention, and resources into the sport means that I never want to doubt my equipment. If I see guns just like mine in the holsters of the super squad it helps me to hold myself responsible and accountable for my performance- it takes away excuses. Some people may see it differently but that is the way that I look at it.

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Mike has touched on a good point. "is my X (alternate platform gun) holding me back?" The thing is that you have a pistol that feels good in your hand and you must be shooting it well. You stated that you love how it shoots. You have the CZ trigger control figured out. All of the guns will need maintenance if you shoot open, it goes with the territory. 2011 do dominate, but if you are comfortable with your performance, stay with what you have. More than half of this game is in your Mind, the skills are required, but you have to be confident. Go to the line and have doubt and it will affect your outcome. I have a good friend that has been shooting SV's for some time. The guns ran great and he does what he needs (shoot,shoot,shoot) to stay competitive at the upper GM level. He switched over to a Tango and his scores has gone up and " HE " feels even better with his performance. Another example that I can use is look at the top shooters, Robbie, Max. They can shoot anything well, but switch platforms (production guns) compared to what they know best (2011 platforms) and notice the performance. Shoot what you are comfortable with and progress. You have a large advantage with being confident at a match.

Tommy Roupe

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I went from a TS to a 2011 in limited and have recently started shooting Open with a 2011. For me, the 2011 makes sense because I'm very familiar with the platform and can more easily do my own maintenance and modifications. When I broke the trigger return spring on my TS, it took a while to get the part from CZC and then I had to figure out how to replace the thing. From what I remember, it wasn't easy getting the pins driven out and everything lined up to put it all back together. If I had to do it again, I'd probably have close to the same learning curve. The 2011 is much more straightforward and simple to disassemble/reassemble. And, as folks have said, replacement parts and upgrades are readily available from several sources. Break something on your Czechmate and you might be down for a while.

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I went from a TS to a 2011 in limited and have recently started shooting Open with a 2011. For me, the 2011 makes sense because I'm very familiar with the platform and can more easily do my own maintenance and modifications. When I broke the trigger return spring on my TS, it took a while to get the part from CZC and then I had to figure out how to replace the thing. From what I remember, it wasn't easy getting the pins driven out and everything lined up to put it all back together. If I had to do it again, I'd probably have close to the same learning curve. The 2011 is much more straightforward and simple to disassemble/reassemble. And, as folks have said, replacement parts and upgrades are readily available from several sources. Break something on your Czechmate and you might be down for a while.

Now I'm just the opposite. I am very comfortable opening up at TS, Czechmate or CZ75 variant. It's what I took the time to learn and I'm comfortable doing it. On the other hand, my 2011's and 1911's, I'm not as comfortable with, especially the fire control systems. I will readily admit getting parts for the 2011 platform is easier and there are many more options. As for the CZ, I keep on hand several of the parts that some have said are prone to failure. I am still fairly new to CZ's (about 3 years ago I got my first, SP-01) but I have only broken a CZC extended firing pin. Good reasons can be made for either the CZ or 2011 platforms.

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Keep it coming guys, lots of good advice here. I love my TS, but I should point out that I am very much a tinkerer and can break the TS into it's tiny parts and back in no time. Learning a platform isn't a big deal, I figure I'm going to spend so much time on it that it won't matter THAT much if it takes a few extra weeks to learn. Also, part of me would love a whole new platform to learn and tinker with. Thanks for all the awesome advice, I'm more like 60/40 now...

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I love my TS for limited. Being able to put basepads on, load them to 21 and have them JUST WORK with no messing around is amazing. Same goes for the Czechmate from what I hear.

But, you are length limited with the CZ, you are gonna be stuck loading to a much shorter length than you would with a 2011. My friend who has one says it is incredibly picky on bullet profile, because the wrong profile means it won't feed in the mags if you load too long. For 9 major loading as long as possible is a good thing, so that you have as much case volume to fill with powder as possible.

Something else to think about, and part of the reason I'm considering selling my TS, is the grip size. Even if you do a grip reduction the 2011 will still be smaller. If that doesn't matter to you, then disregard that!

I like my 2011, but his CMate shoots great as well. They shoot soft and flat if you have a good load, and as you know the triggers are phenomenal. And they are a great deal, KyGunCo has one in stock last I looked for like 2700 (if I remember right).

Good luck with your decision!

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I got my Czechmate in February, it's runs flawlessly. it's reliable and shoots great. I shoot 5 matches a month in 3 states, 9,000+ rounds this year. I have not replaced one thing. All I did when I was looking at getting into open was watch all of the guys shooting 2011 STI/STV and the others, on the squads I was on at the different matches. This told me all I needed to know. If I get one of them I will be taping & racking at some time in every match, they just don't run. Mag's are pinky, you will be cleaning sometime during a match and they still may not run. My Czechmate just runs, If I drop a mag in the mud I will clean it, other then that maybe once a month or every other month I will clean them. In 9000 rounds I have cleaned My Czechmate twice. Some of the guys that I have shot with tell me that they have to clean their 2011, STI/STV after every match and their mags during every match. Some guys had to work on mags every stage or their gun was just not reliable. At the matches I go to a few of the other guys have moved to Czechmats, they told me they got tired of the constant problems.

Edited by CZ85Combat
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I got my Czechmate in February, it's runs flawlessly. it's reliable and shoots great. I shoot 5 matches a month in 3 states, 9,000+ rounds this year. I have not replaced one thing. All I did when I was looking at getting into open was watch all of the guys shooting 2011 STI/STV and the others, on the squads I was on at the different matches. This told me all I needed to know. If I get one of them I will be taping & racking at some time in every match, they just don't run. Mag's are pinky, you will be cleaning sometime during a match and they still may not run. My Czechmate just runs, If I drop a mag in the mud I will clean it, other then that maybe once a month or every other month I will clean them. In 9000 rounds I have cleaned My Czechmate twice. Some of the guys that I have shot with tell me that they have to clean their 2011, STI/STV after every match and their mags during every match. Some guys had to work on mags every stage or their gun was just not reliable. At the matches I go to a few of the other guys have moved to Czechmats, they told me they got tired of the constant problems.

I'm glad you like your gun but...

The blanket statement on 2011 STI/STV is uneducated. There are LOTS of STI/STV/CK... 2011's of many many flavors that run just fine. I shot with a bunch of them on Sunday. As far a mags go, MBX mags are run out of the package. :D

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