Score this one

[Ray_Z]

How do you score a target with a hole that cuts the perf between two targets when there is no indication which target it was supposed to be on. Had several of these today.

[ChuckS]

9.1.5.3 If a bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a paper or metal target, and continues on to strike the scoring area of another paper target, the hit on the subsequent paper target will also count for score or penalty, as the case may be.

[LilBunniFuFu]

9.1.5.3 If a bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a paper or metal target, and continues on to strike the scoring area of another paper target, the hit on the subsequent paper target will also count for score or penalty, as the case may be.

+1 he gets both hits. A way to mitigate this as a stage designer is to inter space no shoots between targets.

[Sarge]

Each scores as a hit and the set up crew learns a valuable lesson in target placement.

[Ray_Z]

My thoughts too Sarge. I recall the save for el presidente.

[Jim Norman]

Except where it is a requirement in setting up a Classifier we strive to NEVER align the perfs. This eliminates the "but the A-zone on the shoot Targets is there behind the NS" argument. Everyone realizes that what ever is covered by a NS is simply assumed to not exist, Right??

As for the OP's question, if you break a perf and your round continues on to strike another target, you get credit for both, be they Shoot or No-Shoot or Steel.

A full diameter hit that is fully inside of the scoring area of a target and NOT tangent to the Perf is assumed to have ceased its downrange travel. This is why using a NS to block steel is a bad idea. You have an automatic Range Equipment Failure requiring a Reshoot. Use steel to hide steel. Put your NS targets directly on top of eh Shoot target. Free standing NS targets can be a real issue when they have a hit and there is a scoring target down range. Shooter fires two shots, there is a NS Hit and two holes in the Shoot, Should be scored as Mike, No-Shoot and whatever the 'Hit' on the shoot target is. Problem occurs in trying to determine which hole on the shoot is the hit. Is the A or the D? grease rings help, but are not always there. Best way is to not create a situation where the question arises.

[Ray_Z]

I agree. The trick to bulletproofing El Presidente or target arrays like it is to put a 3/4" strip of black tape between the targets.

that way you eliminate the possibility of one hole scoring on two targets.

[Nimitz]

The targets for El Presidente are 1 yd apart from eachother ... Why do you have to do anything to them?

[Ray_Z]

There are three arrays that consist of two targets each. The one in the front has the " upper scoring zone " removed. It is possible to end up with one bullet hole scoring on both targets unless you put a strip of black [ hard cover] tape on the underneath target so this is not possible

[Jim Norman]

Regardless of the name of the stage, it is imperative to arrange targets correctly. The fact that one round can hit on and count on two targets is not an issue. That is a part of the game. But, it is critical to arrange the targets so that shoot through issues are reduced to a minimum. They create scoring nightmares and reshoots resulting in slowing a match to a crawl.

If everyone would understand that the area of a covered target behind and inside of the perforations on the covering target simply do not exist for purposes of scoring EVEN IF the targets are FEET apart, a lot of this would be resolved.

I will be running a stage design seminar in January at our club, one of my props will be a couple of targets carefully cut away to demonstrate this exact scenario.

I'll try and post a pic or tow if I get a chance in order to illustrate.

As for the OP and the issue of scoring one shot on two targets, we do that all the time with a covering NS, you break the Perf, you get Hit-NS don't touch the perf and the shot is on the NS, it is NS-Mike. So if we have two shoot targets and the 'Upper A-B" is centered on the 'A' of the covered target, yes, you could get a Aplha-Bravo twice with two shots only where two non-attached targets would have required 4 shots. So? Does anyone know of anyone that would only fire two shots at such an array and be so accurate as to achieve the two for four? I shoot with a lot of very accomplished shooters and not one would ever attempt that. It would be way to easy to get 2 mikes and a FTE.

Now, that does beg the real question, if I shoot only two shots at two targets that would normally require four shots and I achieve the magical Alpha-Bravo did I actually engage both targets? Should I have, regardless of the A-B hits a FTE? That is I think a more relevant question.

My answer would be that both targets are hit and therefore have been engaged. Argue that one shot engaged each target. No FTE. score A-B on both.

But is is only my opinion

[Ray_Z]

OOps! I just realized I mentioned the wrong stage. The one I meant to say was the Mozambec drill. That is to say two in the lower scoring zone and one in the upper scoring zone.

[Ray_Z]

OOps! I just realized I mentioned the wrong stage. The one I meant to say was the Mozambec drill. That is to say two in the lower scoring zone and one in the upper scoring zone.

El Presidente Mozambec.DOC

[Jim Norman]

It appears in the diagram that there is a strip of black tape between the two targets. Note that you cannot declare one target as two by placing a strip of tape across the target, you must have two targets. You can achieve this by cutting along the dotted line, affixing a non-scoring border to the two pieces and attaching them to a common backer. The tape need not be a full bullet diameter wide, although this does create a scoring nightmare, two shots on the line between the AB target and the ACD target would score as three hits, being virginal count it would get really messy. If two rounds crossed the line would there need to be an extra hit counted on the AB target?

Simple answer is to over lay two targets, place a divider tape between the two that is wide enough (1/2") so that one round cannot count on both targets.

This is one reason that the original Mozambique was eliminated. Another was the specifying of the order of engagement. It remains a good drill however as it forces you to shoot an odd cadence.

My opinion only.

[Ray_Z]

You are correct. In order for the stage to be legal there must be two targets in each of the arrays. In order for one hole not to score on two targets you need the 3/4" tape separating them.