AzShooter Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Last year at the Southwest Regional Championships for ICORE I ran across Randy Lee as he was talking about his new trigger job. Randy owns APEX Tactical in Los Osos, Ca. The trigger on his 627 was about 4 1/4 pounds. The smoothest I have ever felt and he had no missfires during the entire match. So, I gave Randy my 627 for him to do his magic. Mine came back at just under 5 pounds. He said he could have gone lower but I had done some gunsmithing myself and champhered the cylinders too much for him to be able to go lower. Still, the best trigger I ever got. Price was $200. At the IRC Randy let me know that a new hammer was going to be available and that would cut the trigger pull down even more. Vic Picket was fortunate enough to get his action done with the new hammer and WOW. Under 4 pounds and I've never seen Vic have a missfire with it. Price has gone up a bit because of the additional work but for a 3 pound plus double action trigger I think it's well worth it. What would you spend on a trigger job? ( A light trigger won't make you a Master Class shooter, but it sure does help make your accuracy go up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 If S&W would just come out with a 9mm 627, I'd be all over it. Sounds AWESOME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joer Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I have had Randy do some work, including trigger jobs, on two of my Smiths. He is easy to deal with, accessible, and his work is as advertised - smooth, light, reliable, no stacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 The new hammers were not ready when Vics gun was done. Vics trigger was done with the origianal hammer. Isn't that correct Randy??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnesota1 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Do you have any contact info on Randy? Also, what makes this trigger so great? Does he sell them individually and how much can it reduce your trigger pull? Has anyone done a 617 with him? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Click here. And then click here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 Click here.And then click here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, you are right, Vic's trigger was done with the original hammer. Unbelievable hun, but you did a super job on yours as well. I was so impressed last month. Now maybe you will just go into A class before the IRC so I have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 John, you are right, Vic's trigger was done with the original hammer. Unbelievable hun, but you did a super job on yours as well. I was so impressed last month. Now maybe you will just go into A class before the IRC so I have a chance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My plans was to get first place in open class's, A, B, C, D at the IRC. I got the D class, but got bumped up to B class before I could make a run on C class (I blame Vic for messing up on a classifier, were he had a couple of penalties added, it was still the 100% classifier, but it moved me up to B class). I wasn't sure on what to expect at last years IRC and wasn't sure how to approach it(how much to sand it, hence the nickname, but you know that, Steve B, right???). From here one out I have to shoot 100% to win B class. The only person I have to stop letting play mind games with me is Jeff N. aka skippy. Every time I try to stomp him to the ground, he ends up beating me. But I have to win the B class trophy first, we don't have to worry about Steve Rosato in our class this year. This 617 can only be smoothed up on the trigger pull, you'll never get them lighter than factory and work reliably with all the rimfire ammo out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Hi Guys, Thanks AzShooter for your comments. I'll have the new hammers available at the IRC. John, you are correct that Vic's hammer was a factory PC hammer that was skeletonized. At that time it was the most viable option. My new hammer is EDM cut from Ph17-4 stainless steel and heat treated. The sides are surface ground flat and parallel. With the new hammer 4.5-5.0 lb pull weights are readily obtainable.The part was designed as a semi-drop in part if you use the dbl action sear/sear spring, pins and stirrup out of your existing PC N-frame hammer. IMO it is better than the factory counterpart when it comes to top-end revolver trigger work. I spoke to Jerry M. yesterday. He has one of my hammers and will hopefully have the time to drop it in one of his guns and take it for a test drive. We also talked about the 9mm cylinders. He's placed a bug in S&W's ear and I'll be hounding the Performance Center from my end too. The 617 will be an upcoming project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I handled one of Randy's N-frame hammers at the Steel Challenge last summer. He had none left for sale, so I took the idea home with me and began modifying my own S&W hammers (old- and new-style) with various sorts of radical skeletonizing to lighten them. Although I didn't exactly steal Randy's intellectual property (I have a 25-year-old article from a DBI publication that shows the same sort of thing being employed on high-end custom K-frames for PPC competition, so I guess by now it's in the public domain), his work certainly reminded me that you can get away with a lighter DA pull if you take weight off the hammer itself. The lightened hammers do not completely explain the quality Randy's action work, however. My own efforts are pretty dang good, I think, but they are definitely not to the level of what Randy can do to a S&W. I suspect that (among other things) he is extremely proficient at making sure everything in the gun is set up, adjusted, and aligned exactly perfectly, to allow the gun to function 100% (with proper ammo) at very, very light DA pull weights. The time and effort he invests into his work is well worth the money, I'd say. As I've noted before, his Glock and 1911 trigger work also appeared to be pretty impressive. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badkarma Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I handled one of Randy's N-frame hammers at the Steel Challenge last summer. He had none left for sale, so I took the idea home with me and began modifying my own S&W hammers (old- and new-style) with various sorts of radical skeletonizing to lighten them. Although I didn't exactly steal Randy's intellectual property (I have a 25-year-old article from a DBI publication that shows the same sort of thing being employed on high-end custom K-frames for PPC competition, so I guess by now it's in the public domain), his work certainly reminded me that you can get away with a lighter DA pull if you take weight off the hammer itself. The lightened hammers do not completely explain the quality Randy's action work, however. My own efforts are pretty dang good, I think, but they are definitely not to the level of what Randy can do to a S&W. I suspect that (among other things) he is extremely proficient at making sure everything in the gun is set up, adjusted, and aligned exactly perfectly, to allow the gun to function 100% (with proper ammo) at very, very light DA pull weights. The time and effort he invests into his work is well worth the money, I'd say. As I've noted before, his Glock and 1911 trigger work also appeared to be pretty impressive. Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badkarma Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Gee this new format is sometimes tricky.... what I wanted was pictures of the hammer lightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Here's one way of doing it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Hi Mike, Nice job on whittling! Thanks for the praise too. As the saying goes, there's nothing new under the sun. The only real intellectual property on the skeletonized hammer I make is in the geometry. The rest is quality control. At the 2005 Steel Challenge I'll be using a prototype trigger job (using my hammer) which will weigh in at under 3 lbs with a smoother trigger return. At least I know now that 3.0lbs and below are possible. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Randy, if anybody--anybody--else said there's such a thing as a sub-3-pound DA revolver pull that's reliable enough to shoot a major match like the Steel Challenge, I'd call bullshit. But I know better in this case. Let me ask you this (if it's not digging into your secrets too terribly much)....by any chance does this new super-light pull involve changing the stock geometry to give the hammer a longer arc of travel? Years ago I noticed you could get a Python DA noticeably lighter than a Smith and still get reliable ignition, and I always attributed the longer hammer throw as part of the reason. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Hi Mike, You are absolutely right! A small increase in hammer arc makes a tremendous difference. The real trick is allowing the hammer to increase it's rearward travel without adversely affecting the trigger arc. So far, no misfires. I sure hope Federal never goes belly up... Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Cool stuff--nice to know there is someone out there appying a little creative thought to improving the state of the art in wheelgun technology! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I figure that revolvers are the "lightsaber" of the action pistol sports. Anything I can do to make the bottomfeeders scratch their heads- maybe I can even lure some of them over to the Dark Side...or at least increase the ICORE membership. Being an Engineering geek sometimes comes in handy. Now, If I could only create a revolver game for the X-Box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8shooter Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Revolver Game ???? ....... Xbox?????? I'll take 2 when you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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