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ZackJones

Steel Challenge Rule Input

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Local range DQ's folks that sweep themselves or others. The thumb break holsters usually meet mr benchmade on the range.

Bingo. The rulebook already addresses sweeping yourself and breaking the 180.

True

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Last night while talking to Troy he said after the world shoot that he wants to get the rules updated. I have some ideas on things I would like to have changed or clarified in the rule book. If you have any input for updates you would like to see please post them and I will be sure to pass them along.

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ZackJones,

Is there an SCSA Advisory Committee at USPSA or is Troy the only person at USPSA that makes the Rule changes and reviews recommendations?

It would be great to see active Experienced Steel Challenge shooters weigh in on the future and current rules.

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I would like for them to eliminate the movement entirely on Outer Limits and only have one shooting box on Showdown.

Or, toss those two stages and come up with two more.

Outer Limits needs to be Static. Shooters that have bad knee's or handicapped in the legs get their whole match screwed up

because of Outer Limits..

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I think they should have a pool of maybe 10, 15, 20 stages.

That could also be very helpful for clubs that don't have 35 yard bays.

Also, would be nice to have a stage with 50 yard shots for those that have room.

Edited by Pasley

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clarify that clubs can use outlaw stages in level 1 matches as long as they conform to 4 steel, 1 stop plate format.

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Thanks for the input guys. Do appreciate it. @pmd - I do not know exactly how rules are handled. When I knew I would have a chance to provide input I knew I wanted to hear from you guys. My hope is at some point in the future we have a draft set of rules that is put out for comment.

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I would like for them to eliminate the movement entirely on Outer Limits and only have one shooting box on Showdown.

Or, toss those two stages and come up with two more.

Outer Limits needs to be Static. Shooters that have bad knee's or handicapped in the legs get their whole match screwed up

because of Outer Limits..

sorry guys but I couldn't disagree more .... why is Steel Challenge only for old, fat, crippled people who apparently can't move the 6' required from one box to the next? Outer Limits tests every fundamental action shooting skill except reloading. It's the best and most important stage of the match. Same goes for Showdown, requiring shooters to shoot from 2 different boxes forces them to usually shoot in 2 different shooting orders, testing their ability to shoot left to right & right to left ... Edited by Nimitz

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Any thoughts on round burning to show clear with rimfire?

By this I assume you mean if you can't get the cartridge to eject you shoot it into the berm? If so I've seen that done numerous times at the matches I've attended.

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I think they should have a pool of maybe 10, 15, 20 stages.

Draw up your stage ideas and send them to me. I have some ideas of my own. I think we'd have a better chance of getting new stages added if we submitted several stages for consideration.

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Any thoughts on round burning to show clear with rimfire?

By this I assume you mean if you can't get the cartridge to eject you shoot it into the berm? If so I've seen that done numerous times at the matches I've attended.

I see a lot of people do it as a matter of routine, rather than try to reuse the already-cycled rimfire round. I've never seen anyone get yelled at for it, but I also don't know if it's entirely kosher under the current rules.

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Rimfire start: Seems like the current system has a lot of "variants". Why not provide a table and place the handgun flat on it. Competitors could start with hands above shoulders (like centerfire shooters), retrieve handgun and engage targets. Fair for everyone. Same start could be used for carbine starts.

Ranger6....

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Any thoughts on round burning to show clear with rimfire?

By this I assume you mean if you can't get the cartridge to eject you shoot it into the berm? If so I've seen that done numerous times at the matches I've attended.

I see a lot of people do it as a matter of routine, rather than try to reuse the already-cycled rimfire round. I've never seen anyone get yelled at for it, but I also don't know if it's entirely kosher under the current rules.

That's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. Thanks for the clarification.

Rimfire start: Seems like the current system has a lot of "variants". Why not provide a table and place the handgun flat on it. Competitors could start with hands above shoulders (like centerfire shooters), retrieve handgun and engage targets. Fair for everyone. Same start could be used for carbine starts.

Ranger6....

If you think we have variants now can you just imagine the variants we'd have with a table start? How high of a table? Where on the table must the pistol be placed, etc. I think the whole issue for proper rimfire starting position could be resolved with a couple of photos/illustrations. One showing an incorrect starting position (arms straight out with only muzzle pointing down) and one where your arms are down at an angle pointing at the starting cone/flag.

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Rimfire start: Seems like the current system has a lot of "variants". Why not provide a table and place the handgun flat on it. Competitors could start with hands above shoulders (like centerfire shooters), retrieve handgun and engage targets. Fair for everyone. Same start could be used for carbine starts.

Ranger6....

Wouldn't this be more hazardous for new shooters? Might be pretty easy to have an ND picking a gun up one handed from a table (for novices of course)?

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Any thoughts on round burning to show clear with rimfire?

By this I assume you mean if you can't get the cartridge to eject you shoot it into the berm? If so I've seen that done numerous times at the matches I've attended.

I see a lot of people do it as a matter of routine, rather than try to reuse the already-cycled rimfire round. I've never seen anyone get yelled at for it, but I also don't know if it's entirely kosher under the current rules.

That's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. Thanks for the clarification.

Rimfire start: Seems like the current system has a lot of "variants". Why not provide a table and place the handgun flat on it. Competitors could start with hands above shoulders (like centerfire shooters), retrieve handgun and engage targets. Fair for everyone. Same start could be used for carbine starts.

Ranger6....

If you think we have variants now can you just imagine the variants we'd have with a table start? How high of a table? Where on the table must the pistol be placed, etc. I think the whole issue for proper rimfire starting position could be resolved with a couple of photos/illustrations. One showing an incorrect starting position (arms straight out with only muzzle pointing down) and one where your arms are down at an angle pointing at the starting cone/flag.

Low ready with muzzle resting on table would be a better option. I honestly don't think having a table directly in front of the shooter is a great idea in either scenario. If there is an AD a lot more could go wrong by hitting a table less than a foot from the shooter, versus putting a round into the dirt 10 feet away while pointing at a low ready marker. Plus a lot of new shooters might not be comfortable grabbing a loaded gun off a table just as they might not be comfortable drawing from a holster. Low ready pointing at a cone or marker should work fine, as long as it is consistant across all matches and is enforced equally for all shooters.

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Table would be hard to account for shooter height. Would also mean ranges would have to construct eight tables, one for each stage, and store/transport them. A cone/spot on the ground is much easier.

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As an fyi, they had steel facing the shooter, not parallel to the box/back of the range at WSSC this weekend

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that's what we do. in addition to safety there is a 'target area presented' issue as well. do the math for a couple of the stages, 5 To Go is the worst, and you'll find that due to the extreme angle of the stop plate from the box that if you locate the plate parallel to the box you present a 'significantly' less amount of the target face to the shooter. Sure, it's the same for everyone, but you're not getting a 12" target at 7 yds that way like the stage calls for ....

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The division descriptions and equipment restrictions need to be spelled out in the book instead of referring back to USPSA. There is already enough confusion regarding production 10 round magazine limits and production optics.

Along those lines I'd propose lifting the production capacity limits simple to expedite the match and make it more assess ke for new shooters that don't keep 5 or 6 magazines for their guns.

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The magazine limits don't make a lot of sense for steel challenge. A possible unintended consequence might be noobs shooting 17 rounds per string with their Glocks. We have an informal (I've never seen enforced) no reload rule where I shoot. Not a sanctioned match before anybody gets upset.

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The magazine limits don't make a lot of sense for steel challenge. A possible unintended consequence might be noobs shooting 17 rounds per string with their Glocks. We have an informal (I've never seen enforced) no reload rule where I shoot. Not a sanctioned match before anybody gets upset.

You don't have to use that as a rule as 30 seconds is the max time limit for a string. If a shooter has an issue with a mag or a jam they should have the right to change mags or reload if they wish. Ya never know the next string may be worse.

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The division descriptions and equipment restrictions need to be spelled out in the book instead of referring back to USPSA. There is already enough confusion regarding production 10 round magazine limits and production optics.

Along those lines I'd propose lifting the production capacity limits simple to expedite the match and make it more assess ke for new shooters that don't keep 5 or 6 magazines for their guns.

Good point about not having to refer to USPSA rule book. Not everyone has both rule books handy.

I also agree with lifting the capacity limit for production. In steel there's zero advantage to running 17 rounds in a mag versus 10.

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I think they should have a pool of maybe 10, 15, 20 stages.

Draw up your stage ideas and send them to me. I have some ideas of my own. I think we'd have a better chance of getting new stages added if we submitted several stages for consideration.

Steel Challenge isn't USPSA, any additional stages should be for local matches only. The current eight stages are well designed, and test a wide variety of technical shooting skills.

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that's what we do. in addition to safety there is a 'target area presented' issue as well. do the math for a couple of the stages, 5 To Go is the worst, and you'll find that due to the extreme angle of the stop plate from the box that if you locate the plate parallel to the box you present a 'significantly' less amount of the target face to the shooter. Sure, it's the same for everyone, but you're not getting a 12" target at 7 yds that way like the stage calls for ....

Construct a wall by the stop plate, and replace the plywood as needed (or if your club has more money use a cheaper steel).

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