Steel Challenge Rule Input

[ZackJones]

Last night while talking to Troy he said after the world shoot that he wants to get the rules updated. I have some ideas on things I would like to have changed or clarified in the rule book. If you have any input for updates you would like to see please post them and I will be sure to pass them along.

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[thermobollocks]

Any thoughts on round burning to show clear with rimfire?

[danjordan78]

1. Clarification on starting flags for Rimfire in multiple box stages. Some put a flag in front of each box, some one in the middle.

2. Finger position on Rimfire start position. Outside the trigger guard or not.

3. Penalty times for non movement in outer limits. There are enough disabled shooters now, either eliminate the movement, or come up with a concrete system for what the penalty should be. Maybe based off of the new proposed classification system. The lower the classification, the higher the penalty. A GM or M would only need 1-1.5'sec per run, while a D or C would probably be 2 or so.

4. Finalize the new classification system!!!. It will be awesome!!!!

That's it for now...

[pmd]

Here's a few items I'd like clarification on and yes are my opinion..

Rimfire Start - I think the start position should be a spot/marker on the ground or at the base of an object at X distance from the firing line not a spot 2 feet in the air.

Target position - Clarification - Are the targets are parallel to the firing line or angled towards the shooting box.

Outer Limits - penalty for shooting from the center box if disabled or injured.

This issue has come up at our range and USPSA said it was up to the MD. I feel a standard time should be established.

Showdown - my opinion is that this should be two or three strings from one box and two or three from the other. Not 2, 2 and 1. I feel this stage will run smoother and be more consistent.

I have been to matches where different clubs run it different ways.

Appendix/IWB Holsters - I feel Appendix hold should not be allowed. I think IWB Holsters should be discussed.

Holster with Thumb break/retention straps - I feel these should not be allowed in Steel Challenge Shooting.

[peterthefish]

How about actually following through on some commitments (new classification system) before re-writing the rules to prevent thumb-break holsters...

Priorities...

[pmd]

How about actually following through on some commitments (new classification system) before re-writing the rules to prevent thumb-break holsters...

Priorities...

I believe the topic was about rules not Classification..

[hornetx40]

Rimfire start used to be a ten foot arc. Why should rimfires start from a set point when centerfire shooters can turn towards their start target. Whats the difference between a ground start point and 2 feet in the air....as long as shooters play fair there is no difference

Classifications are part of the rules.

Remember for 99% of the shooters this is a hobby...It's supposed to be fun

[pmd]

Hornetx40,

Agreed this is suppose to be fun..

However I have seen many shooters starting well above the aiming point in a low ready hold - especially when they have to guess at 2'.

Aiming at a spot on the ground is easier and more consistent.

Establishing an aiming point for Rimfire 2 feet in the air is and has been a bad idea (in my opinion).

Having an actual aiming spot on the ground would be a hell of a lot easier when laying out for a match too.

I have been a bunch of matches (local and Major) where the point of aim varies - I can't recall any that any match I have been to has actually had a flag/aiming point 2' in the air.

[Nimitz]

1. Callout position & number of rimfire flags for Showdown & Outer Limits specifically

2. Specify if targets should be parallel to front edge of shooting box or fully facing the shooter

3. Specifically say that your finger is allowed inside the trigger guard but off the trigger. I have an e-mail from Troy saying exactly this but the current rules just say "off the trigger'

[KelsonAK]

Classification system would be nice. Division definitions - or reference the appropriate USPSA rule set sections (my preference.)

Clarification on angle of steel (parallel to 180 vs flat to shooter perpective) - I don't have a preference, and have generally set up parallel to the 180.

Finger location for rimfire starts - I would like to see finger out of trigger guard there.

Specifics on aiming point for rimfire/pcc. My preference would be a point on the ground - but I'm flexible there. As long as it is consistent.

[jrswanson1]

Pistol caliber carbines have a separate division, unless it's already a done deal.

[hornetx40]

Hornetx40,

Agreed this is suppose to be fun..

However I have seen many shooters starting well above the aiming point in a low ready hold - especially when they have to guess at 2'.

Aiming at a spot on the ground is easier and more consistent.

Establishing an aiming point for Rimfire 2 feet in the air is and has been a bad idea (in my opinion).

Having an actual aiming spot on the ground would be a hell of a lot easier when laying out for a match too.

I have been a bunch of matches (local and Major) where the point of aim varies - I can't recall any that any match I have been to has actually had a flag/aiming point 2' in the air.

AHH now I see your problem. The matches aren't set up properly. Every match in this area either uses an orange cone, a flag or a sign. I RO at almost every match I attend and I make every 22 shooter use the aiming point. Every shooter on my stage will play by the rules or else. It's only a fair match if we all play by the rules.

The matches you shoot at need to set it up by the rules if it is an SCSA sanctioned match.

[hornetx40]

The targets should face the shooter for safety. If the target is facing the shooter it will destroy the bullet instead of allowing it to ricochet of the target. This does need to be clarified in the rules. No Matter how we set them this game is dangerous but we can avoid more problems by having the bullets impact perpendicular to the target.

[pmd]

AHH now I see your problem. The matches aren't set up properly. Every match in this area either uses an orange cone, a flag or a sign. I RO at almost every match I attend and I make every 22 shooter use the aiming point. Every shooter on my stage will play by the rules or else. It's only a fair match if we all play by the rules.

The matches you shoot at need to set it up by the rules if it is an SCSA sanctioned match.

The matches have been set up properly - It's just the Rimfire aiming point varies from club to club - top of a cone, top of flag/sign all vary in height and rarely close to 2'. Rules state "approximately 10' away and 2' high"

[pmd]

The targets should face the shooter for safety. If the target is facing the shooter it will destroy the bullet instead of allowing it to ricochet of the target. This does need to be clarified in the rules. No Matter how we set them this game is dangerous but we can avoid more problems by having the bullets impact perpendicular to the target.

I disagree - it should be clarified or at least discussed with USPSA.

[hornetx40]

The targets should face the shooter for safety. If the target is facing the shooter it will destroy the bullet instead of allowing it to ricochet of the target. This does need to be clarified in the rules. No Matter how we set them this game is dangerous but we can avoid more problems by having the bullets impact perpendicular to the target.

I disagree - it should be clarified or at least discussed with USPSA.

You are right it does need to be an exact starting point, or even go back to the 10' arc. The issue of how targets face should be stated in the rules also.

[thermobollocks]

Appendix/IWB Holsters - I feel Appendix hold should not be allowed. I think IWB Holsters should be discussed.

Holster with Thumb break/retention straps - I feel these should not be allowed in Steel Challenge Shooting.

Why?

[pmd]

Appendix/IWB Holsters - I feel Appendix hold should not be allowed. I think IWB Holsters should be discussed.

Holster with Thumb break/retention straps - I feel these should not be allowed in Steel Challenge Shooting.

Why?

At our local match we have had a few shooters use these types of holsters and the ROs expressed concern to me as the acting MD.

Thumb break retention strap issue - when the competitor would re-holster they would continually sweep their unsupported hand when pulling back the strap.

On occasion the strap would interfere with their draw.

Appendix/IWB Hold - ROs at our local match expressed concern with competitor breaking 180 Depending on which target they would setup on to draw and re-holster.

[scottlep]

Rimfire Start - I think the start position should be a spot/marker on the ground or at the base of an object at X distance from the firing line not a spot 2 feet in the air.

I am getting a little off topic, but watch Max M's rimfire pistol runs from yesterday at WSSC. I am sure he still would have smoked everybody, but he doesn't drop his gun down very far for his rimfire starts. Hard to tell what he is aiming at, but it just seems like a very high start. His is the only video I have seen, so if everyone else was starting that high I have no problem with it. But the start point should be the same no matter if it is a local, regional, state or world level match. Considering the rules say that world records can only be set at world championship matches, if shooters are starting 3 feet in the air vs having their arms and gun pointing down at a 45 degree angle it will make a big difference in run times (for most other than Max).

[thermobollocks]

Appendix/IWB Holsters - I feel Appendix hold should not be allowed. I think IWB Holsters should be discussed.

Holster with Thumb break/retention straps - I feel these should not be allowed in Steel Challenge Shooting.

Why?

At our local match we have had a few shooters use these types of holsters and the ROs expressed concern to me as the acting MD.

Thumb break retention strap issue - when the competitor would re-holster they would continually sweep their unsupported hand when pulling back the strap.

On occasion the strap would interfere with their draw.

Appendix/IWB Hold - ROs at our local match expressed concern with competitor breaking 180 Depending on which target they would setup on to draw and re-holster.

Then the issue is with the competitors, not the equipment.

[Pasley]

I would like for them to eliminate the movement entirely on Outer Limits and only have one shooting box on Showdown.

Or, toss those two stages and come up with two more.

[KelsonAK]

Local range DQ's folks that sweep themselves or others. The thumb break holsters usually meet mr benchmade on the range.

[thermobollocks]

Local range DQ's folks that sweep themselves or others. The thumb break holsters usually meet mr benchmade on the range.

Bingo. The rulebook already addresses sweeping yourself and breaking the 180.

[ToddKS]

I would like for them to eliminate the movement entirely on Outer Limits and only have one shooting box on Showdown.

Or, toss those two stages and come up with two more.

I agree with this. The movement slows things down. Also agree that it is time for some new stages.

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[scottlep]

I think they should have a pool of maybe 10, 15, 20 stages. Major matches wouldn't list the 8 stages being used until the day of the match. Might level the playing field a bit since it would change how people practice for SC and would make SC more about shooting and less about repetition and muscle memory.