SingleStackHawaii Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Akai posted a very cool single stack 1911 on Facebook recently. He maintained that this gun was legal for USPSA single stack division. Despite being very cool, I have mixed feelings about this gun. What do yall think? Per USPSA rules, is this gun legal for single stack? This is what Akai said on Facebook about the gun in question: "This may be the most badass single stack out there. The gun is stroked, lightened, tri-topped, fat grip and still within USPSA rules. About as close we as we can get to our Limited guns while staying within the rules. 40.6OZ with an empty mag. Has steel MSH and full length stainless guiderod." Here is where I question its legality per USPSA rules: 1. Where and how is it "lightened?" 2. Is stroking a slide legal for a goverment model in single stack? 3. How long is the dust cover? Is it under 3.25" measured from the back of the slide stop pin? Lastly, I would like to point out that per USPSA rules for single stack, "Slide lightening, cuts ports, or any milling deemed to provide a competitive advantage." is not legal. Is slide stroking exempt from this rule? Pictures attached are of the gun in question. These pictures were posted by Akai on his Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Read the rule book. We don't have any more info on the gun than you do. Edited November 11, 2015 by Pat Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 "He maintained that this gun was legal for USPSA single stack division." Let his rep ride on that claim. I'm going to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 G'night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStackHawaii Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Positive comments so far, thanks. However, I would like to direct the conversation to a point I feel has gone unaddressed: Is stroking a government model in single stack legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not positive if this means anything but this is permitted. •Duplicating features that are on a factory, massed produced slide available to the general public. From what ive read some factory sti short slide models are "stroked" from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStackHawaii Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 •Duplicating features that are on a factory, massed produced slide available to the general public. Thanks for brining that up. I think that is very important. And that would seem to allow stroking. However, the rules continue to say, "Cuts that are designed to specifically or significantly lighten the slide, such as holes, or slots, are ruled as competitive advantage and prohibited." Indeed short slided 1911's have been stroked in the past. Stroking a goverment 1911 is untraditional compaired to stroking a shorter slide 1911. Moreover, Akai is specifically selling "stroked" single stack goverment 1911's as being "flatter" shooting than un-stroked 1911's. Thus, wouldn't stroking a goverment model 1911 be illegal because it provides a specific competitive advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I would be astounded it would pass muster with Troy. OTOH, who gives a sh$t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStackHawaii Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) I give a shit. Moreover, isnt this the rules section of the forum? I thouht this topic would be interesting to discuss becuase we have not seen anything like this in single stack before. Akai is taking some very clever ideas and trying to sell them as single stack legal. But are those ideas actually legal? I will be honest, I don't think the rule book provides adequate information to definitively rule if the gun in question is legal or not. Such is why I posted here; to hear what yall had to say with regards to the rule book and the gun in question. In my own view: Does it violate the written rules of single stack? Maybe, I am not 100% sure. Does it, in my personal view, violate the spirit of single stack? Yes, unquestionably. Edited November 11, 2015 by SingleStackHawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 buy one and let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStackHawaii Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Thanks for your comments. Edited November 11, 2015 by SingleStackHawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Thanks for your comments. In my own view: Does it violate the written rules of single stack? Maybe, I am not 100% sure. Does it, in my personal view, violate the spirit of single stack? Yes, unquestionably. Then in my view I am very glad you aren't the one being the judge of it being legal. This is not IDPA where personal feelings and subjectivity rule the day. This seems to cover what he has done on the gun. Is a nice gun that shoots flat nice to have? Yes, but its the Indian not the arrow. Duplicating features that are on a factory, massed produced slide available to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Perhaps for the less technical could you explain stroking and how it is perceived to be a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. And going by those "rules" what's the clear cut answer to his question then? Not aimed at u Pat but i don't understand all the negative comments. He's not being lazy or anything he cited the rules he has read them. It's not clear so he is asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't see where stroking a pistol would break any rules. And a Tri-topped slide is already lightened.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't shoot single stack so I'm like the OP, curious. I would email DNROI and include the ad. Then print his reply if he says its legal and keep it in your range bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't see where stroking a pistol would break any rules. And a Tri-topped slide is already lightened.... Tri topping is specifically allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. And going by those "rules" what's the clear cut answer to his question then? Not aimed at u Pat but i don't understand all the negative comments. He's not being lazy or anything he cited the rules he has read them. It's not clear so he is asking. Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. And going by those "rules" what's the clear cut answer to his question then? Not aimed at u Pat but i don't understand all the negative comments. He's not being lazy or anything he cited the rules he has read them. It's not clear so he is asking. I'm at a loss as to why my replies were negative. The OP asked the following questions: 1. Where and how is it "lightened?" 2. Is stroking a slide legal for a goverment model in single stack? 3. How long is the dust cover? Is it under 3.25" measured from the back of the slide stop pin? Answers: 1. How can we tell without the slide in hand. 2. Only DNROI can answer this. 3. How can we tell without the frame in hand. Let' suppose that the OP, or another person, buys this gun based on some of the replies here, takes it to a match and get's bumped to Open division because the dust cover is too long or because the gun is stroked. His defense is going to be that posters on this site said it was legal and that sure isn't going to fly ( NO OFFENSE TO THE POSTERS OR BENOS!). Now the owner has an eight round Open gun. My point to all of this is: 1. We have NO way of providing a correct answer to his questions. He should be asking Akai about the location of the slide lightening and the dust cover length. 2. He should be asking the DNROI, as Sarge said, about the legality of stroking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 For SS legality, I'd be less concerned with the stroking of it and more worried about the slide lightening and tri-topping. Those are the kinds of things that give immediate performance assistance. For matches other than probably Nationals I have a feeling it wouldn't really matter though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Why wouldn't "stroking" be legal in SS? Nothing about the pistol seems overtly illegal according to the SS rules I have read. He didn't even try to make it longer than 5" which might still conform based solely on the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm just surprised by the tone here. I haven't spent a lot of time on Enos lately but returned expecting the same level of respect I came to find here previously. Profanity, disrespect, and an almost complete lack of anything resembling a constructive comment (not including Pat's). Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. And going by those "rules" what's the clear cut answer to his question then? Not aimed at u Pat but i don't understand all the negative comments. He's not being lazy or anything he cited the rules he has read them. It's not clear so he is asking. Single stack division does not have a "spirit" it has rules. And going by those "rules" what's the clear cut answer to his question then? Not aimed at u Pat but i don't understand all the negative comments. He's not being lazy or anything he cited the rules he has read them. It's not clear so he is asking. I'm at a loss as to why my replies were negative.The OP asked the following questions: 1. Where and how is it "lightened?" 2. Is stroking a slide legal for a goverment model in single stack? 3. How long is the dust cover? Is it under 3.25" measured from the back of the slide stop pin? Answers: 1. How can we tell without the slide in hand. 2. Only DNROI can answer this. 3. How can we tell without the frame in hand. Let' suppose that the OP, or another person, buys this gun based on some of the replies here, takes it to a match and get's bumped to Open division because the dust cover is too long or because the gun is stroked. His defense is going to be that posters on this site said it was legal and that sure isn't going to fly ( NO OFFENSE TO THE POSTERS OR BENOS!). Now the owner has an eight round Open gun. My point to all of this is: 1. We have NO way of providing a correct answer to his questions. He should be asking Akai about the location of the slide lightening and the dust cover length. 2. He should be asking the DNROI, as Sarge said, about the legality of stroking. Which part of "not aimed at u pat" did u miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Then why even include my name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Wouldn't the below rule make the "Stroking" option illegal? The whole purpose of stroking the gun is to provide a competitive advantage and the only way you can do it is with a Mill. Slide lightening, cuts, ports, or any milling deemed to provide a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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