Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Outlaw Division at ICORE Matches?


Recommended Posts

Our local club which is limited to fewer than 10 revolver shooters originally allowed auto in the match provided Eight rounds maximum were loaded in the gun, the scoring was very competitive. Under recent management Hi Cap Semi autos are allowed which reduced the number of Revolver shooters and gave the Hi Cap guys a definite advantage. I would vote for an Eight round Max and let the fun begin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Rio first had the ICORE match it was let known that this would be a Revolver Match only. Because if Autos were allowed it would gravitate to the USPSA match and take away from a Revo match. Rio was lucky they had a group of people to make this happen, and a pretty big source of revo dedicated shooters. The option for allowing other shooters to play their game is depending on local conditions. We have near 10 shooters per match as there is an USPSA match every weekend that Autos can get to. just my ramblings. Your mileage may differ

People traveled by covered wagon at that time, right?

Naw, Underlugg some of us had converatbles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

At Richmond, we have so few ICORE matches (at least in the coming year) that we will allow semi-auto shooters in addition to offer an additional weekend for the PCC shooters to play. Since ICORE is such an accuracy dependent sport, they soon find out that any advantage they had in speed negates their platform if they can't get good A zone hits.. so it actually helps them to improve their accuracy game for other sports and injects a bit more money into the coffers.. It also makes things a bit more fun since we can use certain targets in ICORE that are not legal in IDPA or USPSA.. so we have that going for us too. This only applies to club matches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

Update:..... almost 3 years later. 
I have been allowing pistol shooters to shoot pistols just to get the numbers up to help the club with setup, tear down, and overall costs. Over the years we have tried several different iterations of "pistol" rules.  At first we proposed 8 rounds at the beep and 8 rounds in each magazine. The IDPA guys came along and asked for IDPA practice, and since all of the pistol shooters were in agreement I obliged. We made it then 10+1 and tried that for a few months, then the ICORE guys started to complain as the IDPA guys figured out the scoring and began to beat them. So then I added a 30 second penalty button for pistols. This did not work well as many would forget to award the pistol penalty to some random scores. I would get pistol guys emailing me after the match complaining that shooter X did not get a penalty on stage X. Then I removed the penalty and just told the pistol people to enter 100 additional seconds to their time each stage. Since this was called out  verbally after the range is clear command it allowed others to remind the scorekeeper to enter 1xx.xx vs just the raw time. This made me happy as their times did not contaminate us revolver guys and it was an easy round number for pistol guys to subtract in order to determine their finish against a revolver if they wished. Then after several months of this we decided to just get rid of all of the pistol penalties. This let the pistols shooters beat the revolvers if they can since they are still shooting 10+1. 

 

Recently I shot another club with the "all mags to 8 rounds rule". This works better than a 10+1 round game. Although many of our pistol shooters are just looking for production or IDPA practice.  If I was asked how to best implement pistols at an ICORE match I would suggest Pistols to 8 rounds at the beep and 7 rounds in each magazine there after. While ICORE does not have a capacity rule, shooting 9 rounds in a pistol (one left in chamber with a new 8 round magazine inserted.) is distracting to the typical limited division shooter. I know there are a couple 10 round .32H&R revolvers floating around but this is an anomaly. Many ICORE stages setup to 9 rounds are to keep it 6 and 8 round friendly even though this is not required. 

 

I guess if the goal is get as many $$ as possible then discuss it as a group. Let the ones paying decide what to do with these autos. But if you really want pistols to mimic revolvers as close as possible then 8 round start with 7 round magazines force the revolvers to shoot a more 6 round friendly game with a little limited division shooting thrown in if they get creative. 

 

Lastly we all need to wonder if HQ approves of this or is just remaining silent for now. Other disciplines would never approve of non-approved equipment at their events. So we have to assume ICORE would not approve either. 

 

Would official rules for non-official equipment help ICORE? I am not sure??

post-17726-0-09690900-1381185642.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm confused by the desire to penalize the bottom feeders, it makes as much sense to me as penalizing open or limited shooters because they are also using equipment that is better for achieving a good score than a classic gun.

My .02 if you want to open your match to non revo shooters just make up a division for them. If they happen to win high over all that's fine because high over all is not a actual thing, you are only competing with the guys in your division. I honestly dont care if a guy shoots a 50 round mag pcc kn a stage where I have to reload every 6 rounds, we are not competing against each other.
If a bottom feeder is 100 seconds faster than the top open (revoler) shooter the top open shooter is still the top open shooter, likewise for limited and limited 6 and classic.

If as a group you feel some form of humiliation if an auto finishes at the top of the combined results list, do not let them in the match. If on the other hand you want some extra setup help or money for targets let them play in there own division and have fun competing against your competition in your division.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any icore close to me, but I hit the regionals out west and the IRC. I couldn't care less what the autos guy do. If it was my match I'd be happy to take their money and let them play. 

 

I'd most likely have them load to 8+0. 

 

Eventually, allowing more people to your icore matches, autos or revolvers, WILL produce more revolver participation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

If they happen to win high over all that's fine because high over all is not a actual thing, you are only competing with the guys in your division.

I've been saying this for years.  I really shake my head when match directors award "High Over All" plaques. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/26/2018 at 9:08 PM, MikeBurgess said:

I guess I'm confused by the desire to penalize the bottom feeders, it makes as much sense to me as penalizing open or limited shooters because they are also using equipment that is better for achieving a good score than a classic gun.

Thank you for your input. The intent of adding 100 seconds to a pistols time is to move their score to the bottom. (I know you get that) If Revolver HOA did not matter to our members then you are right there would be no point. However since it is a revolver match and our top shooters from classic to open always want to duke it out for HOA bragging rights I oblige by enabling a pistol handicap. Also the pistol and PCC guys do not complain, They are happy to get trigger time. Time deduction simple math does not seem to challenge pistol shooters as much as seeing an unusual time at the top of the order does for the old timers, I guess. Everyone is happy. YMMV. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Actually IDPA allows for a "spd - specialty division", I shoot more uspsa than idpa and the closest in uspsa is Open. 

 

I'd like the idea of allowing them in an "auto division" where they all shoot against each other instead of penalties and such.

Maybe with 1 short COF each match where everyone shoots a provided revolver, give all those auto guys a chance to experience a revolver minus reloads and with a table start.

Who knows may get a few interested.

 

Either way as long as your core group are good with it and it doesn't start corrupting the sanctioned match have fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

We've allowed auto shooters to shoot at club level for a few years now.  We simply give them their own division, we use open and limited/production.  Easier here as you can only have 10 rounds anyway.  Because they have their own division we don't change the scoring for them in any way, they are competing against themselves, and they can always compare scores later if they wish.  The only proviso we have, is since the club has an Icore champion each year, the rule is you cannot win Icore Club Champ with an auto.  We get anywhere between 15 to 35-40 shooters a match now.  Spread is about 1/2 and 1/2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I say let it happen. Give them their own division, Call it Outlaw limited Div. for level 1 matches only. Make it a 7 round maximum capacity to bridge between 6 and 8 shot wheelgunners. Then take the money and increase participation and revenue. It can go either way, they might really like the game, Join ICORE and go get a revolver to play at level 2 or 3 matches. Or a lesser chance you lose revolver shooters in changing to the new division. Wont know until you try! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...