How Much Do You Help At Your Club

[ipscron2000]

I've always wondered how people REALLY feel about this subject. I understand there is a wide range of people in this world, but what is the main thought process of club members.

I'm sure there are shooters who don't join any club so they can use it as an excuse not to help out with ANY or ALL of the duties of running a USPSA match at a local level. I've experienced the entire range of people myself. I didn't know how much work was involved until I was doing it myself.

It’s almost tiring to hear from shooters at the finish of a match that they have to attend a BBQ or children’s function. I would love to do that to but someone has to provide a decent match for all of the shooters who come from all around and want to shoot.

Another burr under my saddle is the ones who say they live too far to set up. That shouldn't stop someone from tearing down and cleaning up while they are in town.

Do you agree or disagree? Or am I speaking out of turn here?

Tell me what goes on at your club.

PS. I do it because I love the sport and want everyone else to also.

[Merlin Orr]

I always help with the home club. When I shoot as a visitor I have found a lot of clubs really don't want people interfering with the set up but do appreciate help with tear down and the storing of equipment and props.

[MikeFoley]

I work at the home club every month for setup, RO, teardown, and new shooter check when needed. I tend to only shoot, paste, set steel, RO, and maybe teardown the stage we finish on at other clubs. I am on the BoD at our club, only because the action pistol guys(USPSA & IDPA) asked me to, now I am also chairing two committees, and doing way more than I planned or wanted.

As far as the monthly match, we have Vikings501 as the Match Director, and JK and Tewlman do the course designs. There are about 6 of us who are consistently working and carrying the load, and we have another few guys who help when they can. We are blessed with guys pitching in sometimes, but it is hard to count on that.

There will always be the usual suspects who do nothing but shoot, but they pay and don't get in the way. I don't expect the guys who run the other clubs to work at ours, but they help anywhere they can as we do at their clubs like I mentioned above. That proves that good people are good people, and they are this sport.

I guess I am saying that I am thankful for people who make it happen, and I don't get angry at those who want to pay and shoot. What really pisses me off is those who won't set steel or paste in their squad.

[Nik Habicht]

At my own club: I am the match director. Fortunately I have GREAT support from a crew of dedicated (read design and take responsibility for setting up a stage every month, handle scoring or registration each month of the year, show up early virtually every month to help build stages) volunteers, some of whom aren't even members of the club. They're augmented by a rotating crew of people who show up early whenever they possibly can to help with the build. Since we have dedicated equipment trailers for each pit, the rule at the end of the match is that the squad that finishes on the stage tears it down and loads the components on the trailer. Match set-up staff shows up with screw guns and golf carts to take walls apart and drive the trailer to its hangar. Tearing down a stage literally takes less than ten minutes --- with that kind of help from the shooters we can the entire match put away in about 45 minutes. Since I work weekends starting at 4:30, it's essential that this runs smoothly --- thanks to the volunteers and shooters it always does. I couldn't do it without them --- they really deserve all the credit.

At the other USPSA club I shoot at monthly: I design and take charge of building a stage each month --- almost always with a couple of dedicated helpers.

Steel or Bianchi at my club: my chance to relax. I usually pull into the lot about five minutes before we start shooting. I'm usually rolling out five minutes after we stop. The Bianchi match director would rather set-up and take down his own match (with the exception of the plate racks); he says it's faster because everything gets put away for easy set-up the next time. The steel match director is my stats guy: I've covered for him when a work conflict prevented him from running his own match. It's all about communication though --- I never roll out without making sure that there's enough teardown help.

At the USPSA club in the next state that I shoot at occasionally: I show up early to help with set-up, 'cause I'll be leaving early to go to work......

[j1b]

I don't do what I should. I used to be very active when the club was closer but the drive now is an hour and a half. I pretty much shoot and scoot.

I do try hard to tape, set steel or RO to make up for it.

Still - probably not enough.

JB

[Clay1]

I think the questions could have been worded differently. I am inbetween doing everything possible and just doing my share and no more. I have been someone who did everything that I should do plus about what 10 other members should do. I stopped that. I'm not a free ride kind of guy at whatever I do.

No matter what match I'm at I help brass and tape, score whatever they need. I find it funny when there is a group of 8 of us at a station and I am the only one taping. Makes me smile.

Rick

[Nik Habicht]

I don't do what I should. I used to be very active when the club was closer but the drive now is an hour and a half. I pretty much shoot and scoot.

I do try hard to tape, set steel or RO to make up for it.

Still - probably not enough.

JB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jack,

if you really feel you're not doing enough ---- the next time you have time (and I know how hard that is) try to get there a little earlier or stay a little later to help with set-up or teardown. I've got some people who only show up early once or twice a year --- but I'm always glad when they can. And working during the match gets a huge thumbs up from me.....

[Tman33_99]

I am MD at my home club. I have a great bunch of guys on our BoD that help out. Sometimes they design the stages, sometimes they set up the ones I have done but they are always there early to help out.

The guys I really appreciate are the ones from the other clubs that make the extra effort to come early and help setup any way they can. These are guys who do their own match each month and come help set up ours.

I am afraid this poll will be lopsided for a couple of reasons. 1) People won't freely admit to being slackards, and 2) the BE forum guys are the cream of the crop here, who truely love this game and these are the ones who are there 2 or 3 hours early and stay an hour or two late.

[sargenv]

I regularly volunteer to set up a stage when help is requested. I set up a stage for two matches at my home club this month. I might take a month off of doing that, but generally, I RO when needed, set steel, pick up brass, and tape and do all that needs doing. I've been more active in my new club since it's closer and the people are first rate. The way the club is set up for IPSC is, you work a saturday practice about 5 times a year, and you are the match director for one match per year. We have enough people that this setup is possible. We generally shoot 5 stages per match with 1 classifier included. It's a great place to shoot.

Vince

[dajarrel]

I feel like we are very fortunate to have the type club members we have. Our lease is about an hours drive from my house and more for others. Our club has about 20 members and we shoot two matches a month with about 25-30 people from a tri-state area.

Our guys and gals always show up about an hour early and if there is an empty bay, they start building one of the five stages . If not they help someone else.

Everyone helps to paste and brass. At the end of the match there may a few who have to leave right then, I have been one, but for the most part, everyone helps to tear down.

I think it's the commaraderie that makes our club successful. Of our approx 20 memebers we usually have anywhere from 4 to 12 members attend the surrounding states sectionals and the two area matches within driving distance. We travel in caravans, stay at the same motels..etc. We are small enough that everyone knows everone well. I hope we grow ( and we have been) but I hope we don't grow to the point where we don't know everyone.

FWIW

dj

[ipscron2000]

Some of you were talking about RO'ing,taping, shaging brass, to me that's a given. Absolutely everyone on the squad should do that. If your on my squad and aren't, I'll shame you into it. At A4 last year we had a guy that sat in the shade and smoked. After several stages it was KILLING ME. The other 13 shooters were working almost every run. Even if it meant standing there and waiting for a target to be scored so it can be taped. So I just had to toss a roll of tape in his lap and insist on his help. (loud enough for everyone to hear) It worked. I too would love to sit in the shade, but this is a volenteer sport. (did I mention I was 3x this guys size)

Ooops, I'll bring the discussion back to where it was.

I am also on the BOD, MD (mostly), RO, Set up, tear down, scoring, handle the money. And there are a couple of guys who help set up and tear down almost every time, but having 4 to 6 helping would be nice.

I'm working on getting new members involved in the club for 3 reasons. 1. I'm trying to get our average USPSA match to 25-30 shooters. 2. Being able to pull labor from those new shooters. 3. Because anyone who likes pistol shooting should love USPSA!

I guess I'm just venting here guys.

Thanks

[davecutts]

Myself and one other guy do it all.

[Flexmoney]

Myself and one other guy do it all.

You have GOT to recruit more help. Even if you have to go to the gun stores and bring in brand new shooters.

Recruiting help is the foundation that everything else is built on. And, it is an ongoing need.

[George]

I used to be a lot more active in running our club but got burned out and laid off shooting for a few years. Now I pitch in as much as is needed whenever I am at a club match. I also handle a lot of the work involved in multi-gun at our club now plus belonging to the rotating weekend RO crew (as Vince mentioned earlier, we are part of the same club).

I figure thats enough for now, I don't want to get burned out again. The large proportion of shoot-n-scooters at some clubs encourage management by a small core of hard workers who rotate according to the burnout syndrome ;-)

I only shoot and scoot at large matches where I pay large fees and incur travel/lodging expenses. At the club level, I work my butt off whenever required.

--

Regards,

[kimel]

Travel time is a consideration in how much time I will/can spend. If I am driving more than 3 hours to a match I am probably going to arrive within minutes of the shooter's meeting (especially for those 9:00 AM starts!) and depart minutes after I fire my last shot. I usually won't even wait for results.

If my squad is the last squad on that stage I will help tear it down but at that point I need to hit the road toward lunch and then home.

We give the same consideration to those who travel in to the more "local" matches I shoot at.

However I will contribute stage designs if a call goes out for them from any club I shoot at and if I shoot at a club more than three or four times in a year I will probably join (especially if they provide a break in the match fee for members).

For my "home" club I design some of the stages, help put together the match book, set up stages, and so on. I am also ramrodding an Level 1 RO course for the club to help grow our pool of certified ROs.

We have a few "shoot and scoot" types but they generally don't last long. Folks hanging in the shade and not helping get "invited" to help (a roll of tape proceeding in their general direction at mid-range velocity punctuates the point).

[Racegun9x21]

I have been around IPSC for over 20 years, my father tough me a lot about match set up and running a match. Over the years I have seen two types of shooters, people that come out to shoot and people that shoot & enjoying the outdoors with friends. Lets face it, 99.8% of a match is standing around shooting the shit, not the shooting stages. We only spend about 70 seconds actually shooting a match, hopefully less! I do not have a problem with out of town folks not sticking around to help out after a match. But, if you’re an hour or less away from the house, I feel you should help out a little. Hell, at least fake it a little. Don't stand around BS'n with your buddies, because, now instead of just your lazy ass sitting there, now, you have three other guys not doing crap either.

What will happen eventually, the people that set the match up month after month, get burned out and pissed off because, they are the only ones doing the work. Thus, the beginning and cause of a club to fall apart and just, a hand full of people showing up to shoot your match. When you loose the heart of someone’s effort to set up a match, the matches will not be as challenging as they once were.

Probably the worst is your local people. Some will come match after match, never stay and help for clean up. Then, you have a big state match with cash and prizes, they may win their class or even high overall. They may have a problem with clean up after a match but, never have a problem taking your money or prizes. Pretty classy, huh?

Here is a rude yet, humbling cure to this problem. Pay attention to the folks that come out and shoot the match but, never stick around for clean up. When you have a Big match where money is involved and you get the entry form, send it back with a nice letter stating "that they are not invited, this match is for volunteers only, see you at our next club match". When you get a call from the shooter, if you do, let him or her know the reason and hope that he can help out a little more at club matches next time.

Lets face it this is a volunteer sport. So, do your part. Even if it is just a little bit.

I tip my hat to all you shooter's that set up and clean up at matches, you are the reason we have so much fun!

Thank you,

Darian P

[Jake Di Vita]

Oh please. Just because someone doesn't help and tear down or stick around after the match now means they are rude and unclassy?

This is getting VERY tiresome.

[Nik Habicht]

Oh please. Just because someone doesn't help and tear down or stick around after the match now means they are rude and unclassy?

This is getting VERY tiresome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jake,

here's how it is at our club match: We design it and set it up. There's a trailer in each pit we use. When a squad finishes shooting the stage, someone from the setup crew shows up with a screw gun to take the walls apart. We then actually have the NERVE to expect that the squad members take LESS than ten minutes to load all of the walls and props on the trailer and to stack the trashed cardboard neatly for pickup. Don't have time for that? We'll still let you shoot. But realize this now: When enough shooters catch "the non helping disease" the match will go away! Setting a quality five stage match 12 months a year, where the stage descriptions almost always read "Engage targets as you see 'em," is tough enough with ten people who do the work every month and another ten to fifteen who rotate through the helping chores on a semi-regular basis. That "less than ten minutes of help from virtually everyone at the end, means that we get the whole mess that took three hours to set in the morning, put away in 45 minutes. It means that everyone gets to still have a Sunday afternoon.......

I expect we'll continue to disagree on this....

[SRT Driver]

I have 32 hours (we need 12 per year) in at my home club this year..and the outdoor season has not started yet..and this does not include stats!!

Is it rude? No. Would we appreicate the help? Yes, but for those that are not club members, I don't expect anything. We are putting on the show for them.

What is annoying is the club member that shows up late, stands around, runs a couple of shooters, and does not design any COF's and thinks that this qualifies him to complain about the amount of work HE has to do while blocking ideas that could makes life easier for those who are commited to the program.

Granted, this is a volunteer sport but if you don't have the commitment, don't complain. Luckily, we have 16 commited members that bust their a****. Those 16 guys have built a very successful program. They are why I don't mind the extra work.

The only thing that blows about doing the work is that you cannot expect to perform up to your ability after working for 10 hours. On the other side of the coin, then you know what your ability is after 10 hours of running around.

[RKooi]

Nik, what a great post. I call it the contributor vs. consumer conundrum. If your population of contributors becomes extinct, there will be nothing left for the consumer to consume. We expect the same thing at our club that you mentioned; when you are finished with the last stage, assist in tear down and just bring the props and targets uprange to the entrance of the bay. With a squad of 10 or so you can make short work of it. The core setup/teardown crew puts everything back in its place. I know several regulars that have never helped set up or tear down props at a local match. What irks me the most is when a club member falls into this category. You belong to the club putting on the match, your primary gun game is USPSA/IPSC and you think you can just show up, shoot and then leave immediately when done? Look, for those that think your $15-$18 match fee allows you that opportunity I say think again. I have seen matches cancelled due to apathy caused by burnout and I vowed when I started to help run those matches that that situation would not occur again. But I gotta tell ya, I would love to see some of the looks on the faces of the shooter/scooters if they showed up and there was nothing ready for them in the bays...

[Putty]

When I was new, I did not know what was expected of me and watched for a few shoots. Now i help in all aspects of our practice matches and weekend indoor matches. This last weekends outdoor match, I got there early to set up and ended up leaving early as I threw my back out hauling plates to a stage.

That said (No iam not perfect) it is really starting to gripe my azz that there are people like Mark C. And Bill S. and a few others that work their azzes off setting up each match etc. while the same group of people show up late or stand around and let us do all the work then leave early. Boy, I don't expect accolades but I don't like getting kicked in the teeth either. If it continues I am going to shoot on my own and travel to other matches.

<whiney mode off>

[Racegun9x21]

Oh please. Just because someone doesn't help and tear down or stick around after the match now means they are rude and unclassy?

This is getting VERY tiresome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jake,

If you came to my match to shoot I would not expect you to set up or clean up after the match. I am talking about our club members, I have seen too many "Club members" bolt after matches. Leaving me and a few guys or none to tear down the stages, this gets old. And yes, it shows no common courtesy or class. With just me setting up matches it almost got to the point where I was like "screw it". I'm going to use this club like a whore, shot and leave. But, I feel that would show "no class". These people that do this, are just into this sport for themselves and this sport "can" survive without their $15.00 match fee.

Darian P

[shred]

One of our best members said he didn't even know he was supposed to help tear down and put away stuff until his 3rd or 4th match-- nobody ever told him up front when he was new. Don't make that mistake.

[ipscron2000]

One of our best members said he didn't even know he was supposed to help tear down and put away stuff until his 3rd or 4th match-- nobody ever told him up front when he was new.  Don't make that mistake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you shred. We don't hit up a new shooter to help out for at least his first couple of matches. You've got to break them in gently or it might run them off.

But for anybody who has been in the sport for more than 6 matches knows ( unless it's Jethro Bodine ) that help on the range would be appreciated. Believe me, I want to get home too and relax.

[Clay1]

Was at a nice club within the last couple of weeks. Oconomowac in Wisconsin. Love those indian names don't you? It was a simple 5 station arrangement. They offer about 1/2 price to anyone that comes out and sets targets on Saturday for the Sunday shooting fees. Damn good idea and it doesn't run the regulars into the ground. After the shoot most of us just packed up our station. Started by 9 am finished by noon. Very, very cool and even made Momma happy that I was home before the end of the day. It might sound like you are giving up income, but what you are saving is probably worth the discount. Just thought that I would share.