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Finally got a chronograph this month which I should have bought years ago.  For ICORE I've been shooting the 200gr Ibeji RN over 3.7 gr of Trail Boss loaded out to 1.27", 30 shots averaged 122 PF with a ~4" group at 20 yards offhand.  Moving a little over 600 fps I was surprised how accurate they were, I bet I could cut that in half from a rest.  Per the ICORE chrono procedure every cylinder would have made the cut but  I'm going to bump it to 4.2 gr and see if I can get around 130 PF just to be safe.  Is +10 on PF a good bet for traveling to a big match?  

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1 hour ago, Alaskan454 said:

> snip <  Per the ICORE chrono procedure every cylinder would have made the cut > snip <  

What?? :mellow:  Remember ... In ICORE ... (per the rulebook) ... they take 6 rounds and only "one" round has to make the 120 power factor. Only one!! -_-

In USPSA they take 3 ... and if those don't make it they take 3 more ... and then if necessary take the 3 highest pf bullets of the entire 6 to see if they can make it.

There was a nice article in the Jan/Feb 2015 USPSA mag ... about making PF and for a 10% failure rate you would add 2 times the SD ... so if your SD was 15 ... you would add 30(fps) to the required velocity to make the pf. In your case that would be 120000/200 = 600 (required fps) ... add 30 (600+30) now 630 x 200 / 1000 = 126 ...

... but ... you only have to have "one" bullet make 120 so you really wouldn't need that ... but if they are really all over the place ... (high sd) ... that would be a consideration.

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I'm familiar with the chrono rules, your last point was my main concern.  The ES on those 30 rounds was 80 fps so there were plenty that would have been below 120.  I figure bumping the powder charge should get a more consistent burn as well as higher velocity.  I want to make sure everything is good to go if I'm traveling 1,100 miles to the IRC.

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1 hour ago, Alaskan454 said:

I'm familiar with the chrono rules, your last point was my main concern.  The ES on those 30 rounds was 80 fps so there were plenty that would have been below 120.  I figure bumping the powder charge should get a more consistent burn as well as higher velocity.  I want to make sure everything is good to go if I'm traveling 1,100 miles to the IRC.

Oh .. OK ... I was confused by the "every cylinder" comment. 

Not extreme spread (ES) ... standard deviation (SD) is the value the guy was doubling (in the article ... anyone can see the article in the "FrontSight" archives on the USPSA website).

But ... if your average was 122 ... then at least one round had to be over 120 and that is all  you need (easier than a 3 round average was all I was saying). You are right ... better safe than sorry.

Check it out ... page 70 ...

http://www.uspsa.org/frontsight_archive/a/2015-01.pdf

 

 

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 For ICORE I've been shooting the 200gr Ibeji RN over 3.7 gr of Trail Boss loaded out to 1.27"


I'm new to the world of reloading but it's surprising to hear you're running a bullet that heavy. Is the thinking that it will let you lower the fps/charge so you still make PF but with a softer shooting load?
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1 minute ago, matteekay said:

I'm new to the world of reloading but it's surprising to hear you're running a bullet that heavy. Is the thinking that it will let you lower the fps/charge so you still make PF but with a softer shooting load?

Yes, that's the general goal.  I'm procrastinating something else at the moment so here's a bit more about my logic.  Normally 200 gr would be pretty heavy for 120 PF but given the selection of bullets available in .45 I found it to be a good choice. Most designs under 185 or 200 gr are generally not the best for smooth and consistent reloads, a lot are heavily tapered SWCs or very stubby RNs, I prefer this style of RN and decided to stick with it.  It has a nice long bearing surface, the profile slips right into a cylinder during reloads, and the added weight makes the moonclip sink right in compared to say a 155 or 160 gr design.  Since we don’t require everyone shoot the same kinetic energy (0.5*m*v^2), just the same momentum (m*v), using a heavier bullet will minimize the energy component by keeping velocity down.  Everyone has their own preference on recoil impulse when shooting to PF so try a few different loads and see what you like.  I tend to prefer heavy bullets, so as long as the load will shoot accurately I load on the heavy side.  

15 hours ago, pete627 said:

Pete, thanks for posting the link.  After checking my chrono data SD was 16, assuming an increase in average velocity kept the same SD I'd meet the 95% confidence level at around 126.5 PF based upon my 30 samples (Z=2.045 with 29 d.o.f).  I'm still curious about changes in velocity due to elevation, temperature, different chrono, etc.  I've only tested two loads on mine and both were done the same day.  I'm going to set aside a few loaded moons to test how much variance I get from week to week.  Now that this thread has been thoroughly hijacked I'll need to post some pictures of my current L6 guns to keep things moving in the right direction.  The last match I shot L6 was with this Redhawk below, if I could only have one DA revolver that would be the one.

0204160918_zps5obxwmgw.jpg

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Matteekay, that rhino setup is sweet looking. Were you able to get the action worked on, or did you go with the kit from the factory? I had a 5" model that I sent the cylinder to TK custom to have it cut for moonclips, but I could never get the action smooth on all six holes in the cylinder. Some were very smooth, others took two hands to pull the trigger. Sent the gun back to Rhino, they replaced the trigger kit with stock parts, and refunded the cost of trigger kit. Let me know what you had done, and who did it. Thanks, Dave.

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14 hours ago, twister said:

Matteekay, that rhino setup is sweet looking. Were you able to get the action worked on, or did you go with the kit from the factory? I had a 5" model that I sent the cylinder to TK custom to have it cut for moonclips, but I could never get the action smooth on all six holes in the cylinder. Some were very smooth, others took two hands to pull the trigger. Sent the gun back to Rhino, they replaced the trigger kit with stock parts, and refunded the cost of trigger kit. Let me know what you had done, and who did it. Thanks, Dave.

Hey there, Dave!

Chiappa actually cuts these for clips from the factory now. I will say, though, that even with TK clips, the rounds aren't as rigid as the Model 10-7 that I had TK custom cut. The Stage II came from Chiappa and was a whole saga unto itself:

  • The gun came from the factory with an 11.3 lb pull.
  • I paid for the Stage II and mailed the gun to them.
  • The gun came back with an 8.5 lb pull (and kind of a sloppy return). It started having ignition issues - wouldn't light off anything but Federal consistently (factory loads), and then started having issues with those.
  • Send it back, they returned it with an 11.1 lb pull.
  • They received and angry email from me enquiring what I paid them $250 for.
  • They took the gun back and returned it with a 9.5ish pound pull and reworked firing pin. It's been all good since then.

Now, in their defense, I didn't pay a dime after my initial payment and they were definitely working to make it right. It also probably wouldn't have been an issue if I was set up to reload. I don't think the Rhino can ever be truly competitive (the trigger action just isn't right for it, especially on the return) but it's a lot of fun to be "that guy" at ICORE matches. It's not like I'm very good anyway, haha.  

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Matteekay, thanks for the quick reply. I would like to get another one, probably a 5" model, blued. I was just at my local gun store getting prices on one, was quoted $950. Don't know if that's a good price or not. I know what you mean about being "that guy", I think that"s why I tried one to begin with. After having a 5" model then a 6", I think I'll have to go with a 5". Where did you get that holster? I have the kydex holster that rhino sells, not the best, but it worked. You wouldn't know of any gunsmiths that work on these do you? Thanks for your help on all this. How long did Rhino have your pistol while they worked on it? I let a lot of people try mine at the range, they all liked it, but not enough to buy one. Thanks for the info, Dave.

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The only advantage to the 6" is that it has that top rail. The 5" is still too big to carry but doesn't have that, so I'm really inclined to say go with a 4" (able to carry) or 6" (has top rail).

That price is in the ballpark. A bit more than Bud's, but no shipping or transfer fees so it works out. Plus you get to actually hold it before paying!

I built that holster. I wasn't psyched about the Chiappa one (but I do like their leather pancake).

I don't know anyone who works on these, unfortunately. They were fast, though - they tell you six weeks, but I had it back in two each time.


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