Phong Nguyen Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Hey fellas - I've got a question about handling walk ons. After match brief, we synch the master to the stage tablets and disconnect the router so the stage tablets operate independently. The tablets stay on the stages. If shooters arrive after synch, we've been having them add themselves as walk ons on every stage tablet. If we were to setup a network connection so the master and stage tablets stay in contact, can I add shooters to the Master and have them automatically added to the stage tablets? Or do you have to perform the pull on every stage tablet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken N. Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) PractiScore never pushes changes to scoring tablets (for security and also to maximize control), so in the network connection scenario you would have to pull the additions in. At our Tuesday Night Steel match, we register on a master that is always on (and plugged in). If they don't see shooters on the stage device they pull. Usually it's already been done by a squad ahead of them. We are planning, in the near term, a registration push (not scores, but registration) to better support this. In practice, it would be a pull, in that we don't know when the stage devices will be up on the network. So the master will flag that it has new registrations, and the stage devices will check it periodically (and each time on awaking from sleep). For security, this will be a mode you enter, and reg changes will only come from the master at that point. Sound okay? Edited October 29, 2015 by Ken N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Ah, ok, that makes sense. So, these shooters aren't really walk-ons then? 1. Squad everyone. 2. Synch master to stage tablets. Squads start shooting. 3. Throughout the day, add new shooters to the Master under Shooters/Squads with no squad number. 4. At each stage tablet, new shooters will pull from Master. 5. They'll then find themselves listed under All Shooters and start shooting. 6. Repeat steps 4-5 on all stage tablets. That sound right? And thanks for your prompt response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcarst Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The registration push sounds good but what do you mean by a "mode you enter"? Will it still require the scoring RO to leave the score screen to pick up the new shooters? Our pads do not sleep so I am a bit concerned that they will be constantly checking and wearing down the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Sounds like a nice feature Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) PractiScore never pushes changes to scoring tablets (for security and also to maximize control), so in the network connection scenario you would have to pull the additions in. At our Tuesday Night Steel match, we register on a master that is always on (and plugged in). If they don't see shooters on the stage device they pull. Usually it's already been done by a squad ahead of them. We are planning, in the near term, a registration push (not scores, but registration) to better support this. In practice, it would be a pull, in that we don't know when the stage devices will be up on the network. So the master will flag that it has new registrations, and the stage devices will check it periodically (and each time on awaking from sleep). For security, this will be a mode you enter, and reg changes will only come from the master at that point. Sound okay? Yes! While you're at it please remove the add walk-on feature. That one feature has caused me more headaches than anything else in PractiScore. ETA: Ken - Quick question - does this send all changes to a shooter record or just certain changes such as division, squad or power factor changes? I'm assuming it would send all changes but thought I'd ask. Additionally DQ and deleted shooter shooter changes should be part of the update. Edited October 29, 2015 by ZackJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I have not used the 'add walk-on' feature more than once or twice, but it has been an issue. IF and only IF the shooter is entered exactly the same on each Nook does it work well. When it has been used by a squad to add a late arrival, I have had to move the scores manually to Late Shooter A from B>, C, D, E, and F in order to make it right. not too bad for one, but if there area a couple it sucks. I would rather they just record Late Shooter on paper and I'll put him in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 We are lucky at our club since each squad is given a Nook that stays with the squad. That way we only need to add late folks once on the squad Nook. For those of you saying, but what if the Nook breaks during the match, you'll lose one whole squad's scores. To you I say, range wide WiFi and I sync back scores every few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I have not used the 'add walk-on' feature more than once or twice, but it has been an issue. IF and only IF the shooter is entered exactly the same on each Nook does it work well. When it has been used by a squad to add a late arrival, I have had to move the scores manually to Late Shooter A from B>, C, D, E, and F in order to make it right. not too bad for one, but if there area a couple it sucks. I would rather they just record Late Shooter on paper and I'll put him in later. Jim, all you have to do after syncing them all to master at very end is to make sure name/uspsa#/phone/email are the same on all duplicated entries and them mark them as walk-on (there is a checkbox at the bottom of the shooter editing screen). Then app will offer you to merge scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I would love to see an option in PractiScore that allows you to lock a device into just scoring mode. Once in that mode the only thing that could be done is enter scores and perform the automatic poll that Ken mentioned earlier. My problem is I have score people that know just enough about PractiScore to be dangerous. So instead of calling for assistance or using the "Move shooter to this squad" they'll just add a walk on because it's right there for them to use. I think I'm going to start asking for club volunteers to come to the range and act as dedicated score keepers. That way I know's running the tablet on each stage and they'll get work day credit which each member is required to earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 We use 'Add a Walk-On' quite a bit now since the stage tablets are disconnected after initial synch. And yes, sometimes it's a problem when you're merging records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Zack, how many those erroneous walkons you usually have to deal with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I'm glad I initiated a policy of no late arrivals shooting. Once registration closes you are SOL if you are late. I hope that policy continues in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 By the way, while we are at that. If you are using walk-ons intentionally or accidentally or have to use walk-ons, it would be a good idea to update all your fleet to a just released 1.3.5 android app as soon as you can. I found one issue with scores history not being synced to Android master device (it still stays on scoring device, so it is recoverable from there even with the older app) when scores are edited on both devices (again intentionally or accidentally) and when walk-ons are merged. So, 1.3.5 now syncs/merges history even for the older scores from devices and if needed you can recover scores using only master device. Before 1.3.5 you'd have to go to a scoring device (and/or can import match from automatic backup on device). I haven't had a chance to test how all that behaves on iOS. Zack are you interested to dig into that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I make anybody that shows up late enter themselves as a walk on at every stage nook, they system has worked really well so far and as a bonus nobody like doing it so they remember to show up on time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 By the way, while we are at that. If you are using walk-ons intentionally or accidentally or have to use walk-ons, it would be a good idea to update all your fleet to a just released 1.3.5 android app as soon as you can. I found one issue with scores history not being synced to Android master device (it still stays on scoring device, so it is recoverable from there even with the older app) when scores are edited on both devices (again intentionally or accidentally) and when walk-ons are merged. So, 1.3.5 now syncs/merges history even for the older scores from devices and if needed you can recover scores using only master device. Before 1.3.5 you'd have to go to a scoring device (and/or can import match from automatic backup on device). I haven't had a chance to test how all that behaves on iOS. Zack are you interested to dig into that? You guys are cranking out now. We just upgraded to 1.3.2 not long ago so thanks for the reminder! BTW, anyone using Amazon Fire HD 6s and receiving app update notifications? We can only update by searching for Practiscore in the Amazon App store, clicking on it and then clicking Update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm using their new Fire tablet, the $50 one, not sure if it used the same OS, but venture to say it does. When I go to the Library, then App Updates it has shown the last Practiscore update for me to download Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm glad I initiated a policy of no late arrivals shooting. Once registration closes you are SOL if you are late. I hope that policy continues in the future Sounds customer friendly. So -- no exceptions ever? Car load of guys coming from out of state who get stuck behind an accident are SOL? A guy who designs and builds a stage for you almost every month oversleeps and you turn him away? How about a member of the hosting facility's board of directors -- who's voted your way on several contentious issues relating to the USPSA program? But hey, maybe demand is strong and matches all sell out..... That's pretty much the opposite approach that I'd take to grow and maintain a match. Now, if we had someone who always showed up late, and never stayed to help -- maybe I'd impose that on that individual. But it would have to be a case by case decision..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm using their new Fire tablet, the $50 one, not sure if it used the same OS, but venture to say it does. When I go to the Library, then App Updates it has shown the last Practiscore update for me to download Ok, thanks for your response. I didn't see the last 2 updates when I did the same thing so maybe it'll show this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Zack, how many those erroneous walkons you usually have to deal with? I would say 2 or 3 times this year and every time it's been difficult to pull scores from the scoring tablets onto the master (iOS) and then merge the shooters. In one case one shooter ended up having 8 - 10 records to merge. It seemed every time a sync was performed a new shooter was added. By the way, while we are at that. If you are using walk-ons intentionally or accidentally or have to use walk-ons, it would be a good idea to update all your fleet to a just released 1.3.5 android app as soon as you can. I found one issue with scores history not being synced to Android master device (it still stays on scoring device, so it is recoverable from there even with the older app) when scores are edited on both devices (again intentionally or accidentally) and when walk-ons are merged. So, 1.3.5 now syncs/merges history even for the older scores from devices and if needed you can recover scores using only master device. Before 1.3.5 you'd have to go to a scoring device (and/or can import match from automatic backup on device). I haven't had a chance to test how all that behaves on iOS. Zack are you interested to dig into that? Dig into what? Walk ons or pulling and merging walkons from scoring tablets? I'm using their new Fire tablet, the $50 one, not sure if it used the same OS, but venture to say it does. How are those working out for you? I was considering buying one for testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I should also say, that "reassign scores to other shooter" is not necessary and somewhat error prone for fixing duplicated shooter entries. Though you could use it for that. I would say 2 or 3 times this year and every time it's been difficult to pull scores from the scoring tablets onto the master (iOS) and then merge the shooters. In one case one shooter ended up having 8 - 10 records to merge. It seemed every time a sync was performed a new shooter was added. I'm only aware of one case when entry recreated, e.g. change non-walkon to walkon or edit name/etc on master and then pull match again from a scoring device (but that is kinda by design and why you should do these things at very end). If you have other cases, please email support@ with some details how to reproduce. I haven't had a chance to test how all that behaves on iOS. Zack are you interested to dig into that? Dig into what? Walk ons or pulling and merging walkons from scoring tablets? Primarily editing scores on both devices (including incomplete scores for uspsa), walkons and verify that scores history retain all edits. Same for merged shooters/walkons to retain full history of edits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Zach the Fire tablet has been working well. My concerns are the standard ones with devices like that, the device is slippery and if dropped may not fair as well as a Nook. So some type of case and screen protector will be needed, which adds to the cost. Although, because they use conductive touch and not IR like the Nooks, you can get a more water resistant case or seal it in a zip lock bag. Edited October 30, 2015 by jdphotoguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Nguyen Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 We've dropped our Fire tablets a few times. They are rugged! And resist dust and water too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I've never used the Walk-On feature... Not sure why I would want to... It seems like a disaster waiting to happen... Typing people's names in exactly correct at different stages is a bad idea... People always come late to our matches and I always fit them in a squad... Someone drives out to our range, I'm always going to squeeze them in... If someone shows up after I have synched the master tablet to the scoring tablets, I go down to the bay the new guy is going to shoot at and add him to that squads tablet... The tablet follows the squad and I pick up the new shooter the first time I sync the master tablet. I usually sync the scoring tablets to the master once per stage... whenever I have a chance... I have used the "reassign scores to other shooter" option several times when someone scores the wrong person... It is very helpful to move the scores to the correct person and the zero the original scores out. It is a little scary to reset someone's score and not get an "are you sure" message. Edited November 2, 2015 by RaylanGivens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 We are lucky at our club since each squad is given a Nook that stays with the squad. That way we only need to add late folks once on the squad Nook. For those of you saying, but what if the Nook breaks during the match, you'll lose one whole squad's scores. To you I say, range wide WiFi and I sync back scores every few minutes. You do realize that you are risking a squad's entire match in having the Nook travel? If anything, anything at all happens to that Nook thta somehow renders the data irrecoverable, that squad has no match. If you have each stage keep the Nook on the stage, and the same catastrophe occurs, only that stage is lost and it is lost to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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