Combo Scoring

[ErikW]

This started out as simply implementing the "neutralize" scoring aspect of other 3 gun matches for USPSA. Then it just kept growing and growing.

Feel free to poke holes in aspects that could "break" in a match. I am well aware that its complexities preclude an inexperienced staff from implementing it without trouble. It is for the 3 gun veterans who want unhindered multigunning and are willing to work for it.

If this isn't shot down in flames, I'm willing to create a sample course description and scoresheet. Then maybe somebody like George could create the stage in EZWinScore and take screen shots. (I don't have a PC to run EZWS.)

[ErikW]

Combo Scoring is another method to augment Comstock and Virginia Count. Its main goal is to better accomodate stages combining two or three guns in a Multigun match. It also:

- recognizes that a Minor rifle cartridge is far more powerful than a Major pistol cartridge, despite similar power factors

- provides for different target values to balance a course and recognize more difficult targets that require more time

- provides for engagement with the gun of the shooter's choice

- allows for a maximum stage time

Combo Scoring can be accomplished in the current version of EZWinScore by creative accounting and manipulation of a Comstock stage. In other words, it is a kludge. As such, it demands more attention from the match staff, particularly the stats officers and range officers.

The Combo Scoring method is for stages for which Comstock is problematic or not viable. (E.g., full paper targets on a handgun/rifle stage.) Wherever possible, Comstock is the preferred method because it better recognizes power and accuracy. Combo Scoring may not be used on a handgun-only stage. Combo Scoring should be considered to balance match points by adjusting target values.

A Combo Scoring stage is timed. Time starts by audible or visual signal, or by the competitor. The last shot fired or maximum time determines the competitor's time for the course and is considered the procedural end of the course. The net points (scored hits less penalties) are divided by the time to produce a hit factor. The hit factor is used for stage points as with Comstock.

Steel or frangible targets as defined in other USPSA/IPSC rules are allowed in a Combo Scoring course, but their values can be 5 , 10, or 20 points, with a miss penalized double the value.

(* Five and ten point targets are currently supported in EZWinScore. A 20-point target requires multiple rounds for EZWinScore accounting and must be kludged as a 4-round paper target. It is scored A-A-A-A for a hit or M-M-M-M for a miss. The multiple round accounting creates a false round count.)

Only an IPSC or a Classic target may serve as a Combo target. For the purposes of describing Combo Scoring, in this paragraph "target" means a Combo target. A target can be valued at 10 or 20 points. A target requires a single A hit or any two hits to score those points (Good). A single non-A hit does not score points and is penalized half the target value (Bad). A total lack of hits is penalized at twice the target value (Ugly). A shotgun slug target may only require any single hit to score full value.

(* A Combo target requires multiple rounds for EZWinScore accounting. A 10 point target is scored A-A, A-M, or M-M, for good, bad, and ugly, respectively. A 20 point target is scored A-A-A-A, A-A-M-M, or M-M-M-M. The multiple round accounting creates a false round count.)

A failure to engage procedural penalty may be applied to a Combo target, in addition to the misses.

The shooter may engage a Combo target with multiple rounds, as with Comstock.

A course may mix Combo targets with targets scored normally (Comstock style) under certain conditions. Combo targets must be Classic and other targets must be IPSC, or vice-versa. Combo targets and other targets must be engaged with different firearm types. (Classic is recommended for long guns and IPSC for handgun.) The course description must state which targets are scored Combo style and which are scored Comstock style. All Combo targets must have the same value. All other targets must have the same value (scored rounds), and the value may be different from that of the Combo targets.

The course description shall state the point value of each Combo target and the scored rounds for each other target.

The course description shall state if a Combo target scores full value with any single shotgun slug hit. Unstated, a Combo target allowed to be engaged with a slug scores full value with at least one A slug hit or any two slug hits.

The course description shall state which of the three firearm types are required or allowed for the stage. A type not mentioned is considered disallowed.

The course description shall state which targets score with which firearm types: handgun, rifle, or shotgun slug. The description shall state whether one or two slugs are required to score. A course having both handgun and rifle or slug targets should use IPSC targets for handgun and Classic for rifle or slug.

A course may allow a target to be engaged and scored with any allowed firearm type. No target shall be required to be engaged with more than one firearm. No target shall be required to be engaged with a multiple projectile round (i.e., birdshot or buckshot). If a target is engaged with different firearms, only distinguishable hits upon the target shall be scored; there is no allowance for passing a smaller caliber bullet through a larger caliber hole or making a larger hole over a smaller one.

When a target requiring engagement with only a specific firearm type is not engaged by the shooter with that firearm, it shall be scored as missed, regardless of hits from another firearm. A single procedural penalty shall also apply.

When a target requiring engagement with only a specific firearm type is also engaged by the shooter with a different firearm, it may be scored as missed, regardless of hits, at the range officer's discretion. A single procedural penalty shall also apply.

When a target requiring bullets or slugs is engaged with multiple projectiles (i.e., birdshot or buckshot), it may be be scored as missed, regardless of any other scoring hits, at the range officer's discretion.

A disappearing frangible target (e.g. shotgun clay from a pigeon flipper) may score 5 or 10 points but shall not incur a miss or FTE penalty. It may be declared disappeared when it completes its movement by hitting the ground or a stage prop. The RO determines whether it was hit before disappearing.

The course description shall state the maximum time allowed for the course, if any. When a competitor exceeds max time, he shall be stopped by the RO and given misses for unengaged targets, but not FTE procedurals.

[bgary]

The Combo Scoring method is for stages for which Comstock is problematic or not viable. (E.g., full paper targets on a handgun/rifle stage.) Wherever possible, Comstock is the preferred method because it better recognizes power and accuracy. Combo Scoring may not be used on a handgun-only stage.

I think we're going to be able to *fix* those problems, so hopefully, we'll be less in need of a work-around.

Specifically,

-- I think we've got a way to do "real comstock", inlcuding firearm-correct power-factors in a multi-gun stage, without having to resort to a-zone-only targets.

-- I think we've got consensus around the need for variable target values... the 8" plate at 300 yards should (at course designer's discretion) count more than the full-size popper at 10 yards.

-- I think we've got a relatively clean way to get these things into EZWS

-- And, I think we've got consensus that if we *can't* make EZWS do what we want, we should make the investment to build a multi-gun-only scoring program that gives us the flexibility to adapt as the sport evolves.

I don't think we'll reach consensus on a time-plus approach this year... I think one of the things that sets USPSA apart from the others is comstock and PF scoring - a more powerful round gets more points, and a bigger, more complex stage counts more in the match. But.... I think that's OK, and we *are* getting rid of the other big problems from last year (Kurt, that means grounding hot guns)

Bruce

[ErikW]

But those require an upgrade to EZWS or a new scoring program. My proposal assumes USPSA software is developed at a glacial pace.

And I still think it's goofy that, while paying lip service to power, C-D hits on a target score 6 points with .40S&W but only 4 points with .223.

[bgary]

those require an upgrade to EZWS or a new scoring program

Nope. The "San Angelo" approach lets us do it all with EZWS as it currently exists, and with *very* minor tweaks to RO or stats procedures. We're going to pilot it at a couple of 3g matches up here, and then hopefully use it at the 3g Nats later in the year.

And I still think it's goofy that, while paying lip service to power, C-D hits on a target score 6 points with .40S&W but only 4 points with .223

I tend to agree with you. But... that's not a battle I'm trying to fight right this second. I want to get it so the rules support the kind of match we want to have. When we have gotten *that* done, I think we can address what I'll quite-arrogantly call "esoterica".... things like "should .223 make major" or "should minor rifle count the same as minor pistol" or...

In a broad context, if we get the firearm-specific PF stuff right, that may all wash out. What probably matters the most is that a minor non-A rifle hit counts less than a major non-A rifle hit. What the absolute point values are *may* not be that critical...

Bruce

[Flexmoney]

I split my post out of Erik's thread...didn't want to drift it too far.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22360