zhunter Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It may be an attempt at humor ??? More likely rudeness masked in humor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 My buddy is chomping at the bit to use a red dot on his g34. He will be glad to hear this! Thanks for confirming! He could have been using it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Uh... It's Welfare Optics.This isn't being rude?Not in the least. I've never used welfare open. And just to clarify, I saw WO used elsewhere before I used the term so it's not like I created it. I hope you all get what you want from the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It may be an attempt at humor ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Yeah "welfare open" I like it! Exactly what I'm looking for! Thank god for the .22 open (optic) Steel Challenge! Looks like a little Jpoint will work nicely...(yeah...+$300.) :-) I simply wanted to be able to enjoy shooting again, I say again becuase my eyes had gotten to the point I could not clearly see my front sight. I can score a target without glasses at 15 yards most of the time, but the front sight was fuzzy at best.Exactly. And even the dot is more like a slash \ Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Saying some people don't want to shoot open but want to shoot a dot doesn't make sense. Isn't that like saying we should get rid of Production and Single Stack because saying people don't want to shoot Limited, but want to shoot iron sights doesn't make sense? I don't care if you hate on CO Sarge, but FYI there ARE people who are interested in CO, but not in Open...like me, because: 1. Cost. I can't stomach paying $200 or whatever it is per mag, let alone the cost of most Open guns. When I get a CO gun it'll cost 1/3 or 1/4 of what most Open guns cost. 2. Either expensive ammo or shooting 9mm major which I don't really want to deal with (I'm sure it's not that big a deal, but not interested in loading it). 3. Obnoxious loud compensators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I traded (2) Social Security "entitlement" checks, (and some aluminum cans) for my welfare optic setup...now they tell me I have to put a $300 slide mount optic on it and lose my rear sight. Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergus556 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Can someone tell me what the big problem is? A division for a new type of gun. The horror! This reminds me of when Limited div was the big news. I remember a local match many years ago where it was said if someone doesnt have a dot and a comp they can go elsewhere! Yes that was the attidude! A slide riding dot is what the future holds for carry/duty guns. USPSA was once the cutting edge, but I guess some just want to see this as a game and game only. Or just feel threatened. USPSA should recognize something new that can be used in the real world. Perhaps the soliders using an M4 with a red dot is "welfare optics" also???? I'm sure this will piss some off, but I dont play well with others. Rant done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Damn. I think I'll go over to the Doodie Project where people act like adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergus556 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Damn. I think I'll go over to the Doodie Project where people act like adults.Hey I said "rant done" haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergus556 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Damn. I think I'll go over to the Doodie Project where people act like adults.Hey I said "rant done" haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 See you at Doodie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Can someone tell me what the big problem is? A division for a new type of gun. The horror! This reminds me of when Limited div was the big news. I remember a local match many years ago where it was said if someone doesnt have a dot and a comp they can go elsewhere! Yes that was the attidude! A slide riding dot is what the future holds for carry/duty guns. USPSA was once the cutting edge, but I guess some just want to see this as a game and game only. Or just feel threatened. USPSA should recognize something new that can be used in the real world. Perhaps the soliders using an M4 with a red dot is "welfare optics" also????Most of what I said was in jest. Whoever said "welfare open"...I love it. I'm a broke retired Alaskan hillbilly with a bad dominant eye. But, I found a home...it will be .22 open Steel for awhile. Yes, likely with a $300 Jpoint. :-/ But, let's get REAL about "carry optics" for a moment. Please tell me any agency, patrol officer, or normal citizen...who "carrys" an exposed OWB holstered weapon with an optic? The soldiers with optics(rail mounted) have cowitnessed BUIS and not a slide mounted optics only. And to get "real world" about holstered "carry optics" then it should be a "Level ll+ retention" or concealment holster...like in the real carry world for a OWB "carry" setup...not a speed holster. If we're suddenly going to get "real" in a USPSA "carry" division. The truth is USPSA IS a game...and GREAT Fun! But this new "surprise" division (with little-to-zero member input) is based on fantasy. And honestly, it appears invented to sell expensive industry sponsor optics, and not about a "realistic" new level playing field for the members. (In my opinion). Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Simple, get both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 My father-in-law was a Lt. in the Dallas Sherrif's Dept, and carried a G19 with an Optima red dot (Jpoint before JP bought the rights) on it daily. On Duty. That was back around 2000-2005? Not standard issue, but still, some do carry them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 And, imho this Division is not based on MEMBER input. Its based on MANUFACTURER input...... Think how many ZEV Dragonflys with undercut grips and slide lightening (or similar) are out there, but not legal for this division. How many box stock Production legal guns do think are out there already milled for a Red Dot, with no other mods? You have to build a gun for this Division. If you already had an optic mounted plastic gun, its probably not legal due to other common modifications...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) My father-in-law was a Lt. in the Dallas Sherrif's Dept, and carried a G19 with an Optima red dot (Jpoint before JP bought the rights) on it daily. On Duty. That was back around 2000-2005? Not standard issue, but still, some do carry them.retention holster? This pet division is supposedly based on its affordability compared to Open. So, now what? Another division for those that can't afford CO? Just keep watering it down so everyone can play? I guess rim fire is next Understood. But, I submit that my 9mm production gun is LESS "watered down" then a "tuned" compensated .40 or .38 supercomp with a light slide and weighted front end so-called "major" open gun. Let's try some rapid follow-up shots with each, and see which is more "watered down" "major"-recoil wise. LOL! Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It was one with a thumb strap across the back of gun, that snapped in place if I remember right. Been a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) It was one with a thumb strap across the back of gun, that snapped in place if I remember right. Been a while.Exactly. There's 500milliseconds. LOL! Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) And, imho this Division is not based on MEMBER input. Its based on MANUFACTURER input...... Think how many ZEV Dragonflys with undercut grips and slide lightening (or similar) are out there, but not legal for this division. How many box stock Production legal guns do think are out there already milled for a Red Dot, with no other mods? You have to build a gun for this Division. If you already had an optic mounted plastic gun, its probably not legal due to other common modifications...... Word. Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niltreth Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) zombywoof, which one of those has the harder-to-manage recoil? The "major" or the "minor" gun? See I think the harder to manage "production-open" gun should get the scoring advantage. ;-) Edited September 18, 2015 by Niltreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It may be an attempt at humor ??? More likely rudeness masked in humor Yep, thats how it looks to me. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It may be an attempt at humor ??? More likely rudeness masked in humor Yep, thats how it looks to me.Eric Rudeness ? My comments are nothing compared to the last page! Bwahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) zombywoof, which one of those has the harder-to-manage recoil? The "major" or the "minor" gun? See I think the harder to manage "production-open" gun should get the scoring advantage. ;-) Well, the open gun with the thumb rest is easier /faster to shoot. So I guess it "manages" the recoil better. The CO gun is just plain fun to shoot. It's a little slower getting back on target, as it should be. I've been shooting USPSA for less than a year. I love dots. Edited September 18, 2015 by zombywoof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM83 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 All BS aside, how about shooting the new division because it's FUN. I have had the chance to shoot a few local matches with my x-cal/DeltaPoint and I have enjoyed it quite a bit. The cost isn't prohibitive. The X-cal ran me $750 and the DeltaPoint $250. Add in the mount and its ready to roll for $1050. A CZ shadow will run you $860 BEFORE any parts or work. And then there are the Tanfos... I just got my K100 back from Primary Machine cutting it for a FastFire and that gun is all in for under $700. Before all the bashing starts try shooting the division. I have already had a handful of people I have squadded with mention they are looking into doing a CO rig after handling mine and watching it shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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