Cutting A Cylinder For Moon Clips

[imashooter2]

I'm looking for instructions on cutting my 686 seven shot cylinder for use with moon clips. I was told that www.moonclips.com had information, but darned if I can't find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? All advice appreciated. Thanks!

[aussieboy]

Clark Custom Guns, Inc http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/

Pinnacle Custom Gunsmithing http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/

I used Clark and they did a good job. I also had the cylinders chamfered and polished.

I have seen Pinnacle's work and they also do a good job.

You only have to ship the cylinder which makes it a lot simpler than having to ship a whole firearm.

[imashooter2]

Thanks for the reply. I expect that both of the shops you mention would do first class work. I'm really looking to do the job for myself though.

[johnhurd]

Thanks for the reply. I expect that both of the shops you mention would do first class work. I'm really looking to do the job for myself though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's there because that is where I got the info for doing mine, I remember now the instructions came with the full moons

[Carlos]

Need same info; have a lathe & mill w/ dividing head; I just nee specs. Regards,

D.C. Johnson

www.shootersparadise.com

[imashooter2]

Well, I have the instructions for a 6 shot. My cylinder is a 7 shot though. Looking at the close up pictures on the Pinnacle site, it looks as though the cuts are just straight lathe turning. I don't see anything that resembles being cut on a mill:

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/images/rev_gal/moonclip2_lg.jpg

Here are the 6 shot instructions:

S&W Model 686 / 6 shot Full Moon Conversion.

Summary

Clip is .022 thick

Diameter is 1.230+

Cut cylinder .030 deep to a diameter of 1.245 (.015 free play of clip) Remove .030 thickness from the top of the ratchet extensions or legs.

Machining Cylinder — with a Lathe.

1.        Insert cylinder into the collet and lock into machine.

2.        Square up the cutter with the machine/cylinder.

3.        Set-up carriage and lock.

4.        Zero cross feed w/cutting tool on the scribed line on the cylinder & zero/set lock ring.

5.        Zero cutting tool with the cylinder by touching and making a mark & zero/set lock ring.

6.        Machine cylinder for a final depth of .030

7.        Verify correct depth I width of cut & try FM clip for correct fit.

8.        Remove burrs, etc. with scraper and files as needed.

Machining Ratchet with a 5C Collet Indexer with 24 positions on a milling machine.

1.        Insert ratchet into the Y4 inch collet; align ratchet center pin hole in with a 1/8 rod.

            • Align cartridge head clearance notch with ½  inch rod.  This is the critical step.

2.        Zero the inch end mill cutter with the inside edge of the ratchet body at a cartridge head clearance notch.

3.        Lock the Indexer collet; Zero the inch end mill cutter with the top edge of the ratchet extensions or legs.

4.        Machine ratchet cartridge head clearance notch and extension or leg to a depth of .030

5.        Rotate the indexer 60 degrees and repeat step 4 until all 6 cartridge head clearance cuts have been made.

6.        Rotate the indexer 30 degrees and zero the end mill on the body of the ratchet at the base of the extension or leg.

        • Machine the .030 burr from each of the extensions or legs between the cartridge head clearance cuts.

7.        Rotate the indexer 60 degrees and repeat step 6 until all 6 clean up cuts have been made.

8.        Remove the ratchet from the Indexer and verify correct thickness of the finished ratchet.

9.        Remove burrs, etc. with scraper and files as needed.

Re-assemble cylinder and check final fit, etc.

[johnhurd]

I don't see anything that resembles being cut on a mill:

THe Star has to be cut on a mill.......

[Carlos]

Excellent, those were exactly the directions & dims I was seeking. Thanks very much.

[aerosigns]

Questions if anyone is still following this thread.

Considering having Clark Custom convert my 686 to full moon.

How much did converting to a full moon clip speed up your reloads over the use of speedloaders?

How much did the chamfering and polishing of the cylinder improve reloads?

If you used Clark what was the turn around time on your equipment?

Thanks,

Jim

[10mmdave]

With a 7shot cylinder it's fairly simple to do this yourself with a milling machine.

I did my 7 shot 686 in a night with a 1 inch bottom cutting end mill (a well used one at that)

The nice part about the 7 shooters is you can use the flutes to index the cylinder.

I laid this all out in my CAD software and milled it like a CNC machine, move left, move

forward, raise quill, go back to "0" to start the next one.

The star is simple also as the flat on the shaft indexes that part also, biggest problem will

be to get the depth of the cuts equal.

Oh !! and I only went .025 deep I believe.

I'll dig out my dwgs and post 'em if anybody's interested.

(where the heck did I file those &^%#@ things )

And to answer your questions, with practice it seems to be a tie between MC and speed

loaders (read that somewhere here) I guess Bubber is the El Suprimo loading with loaders.

The biggest thing I like is that all my brass comes out of the cylinder at once. And when you

hit the mark you don't have to push a little more to release the rnds.

BUT ! ! the 7 shot moons are the toughest to load (IMHO) depending on how you load a moon clip that opening in the center just isn't big enough for my finger tip. The easier the

brass is to load into a clip the more likely it is to flop around in the clip.

Chamfering and polishing is a must, how much is good debate but some chamfering has to

be done to aid in the smoothness of the reload.

And you'll wait any where's from 2 weeks to 6 months to have the job done, good part is

you don't have to send the whole gun to have it done, if the smith says no, he needs the

whole gun then he's (she's!) either very through or hasn't a clue what there doing.

(All we're doing is making clearance for a thin metal clip folks)

There's a distinguished forum member here who mooncliped his 586 with a dremel

tool so anythings possible!

(and man was i stretching it with that word "distinguished")

[aerosigns]

With a 7shot cylinder it's fairly simple to do this yourself with a milling machine.

I did my 7 shot 686 in a night with a 1 inch bottom cutting end mill (a well used one at that)

The nice part about the 7 shooters is you can use the flutes to index the cylinder.

I laid this all out in my CAD software and milled it like a CNC machine, move left, move

forward, raise quill, go back to "0" to start the next one.

The star is simple also as the flat on the shaft indexes that part also, biggest problem will

be to get the depth of the cuts equal.

Oh !! and I only went .025 deep I believe.

I'll dig out my dwgs and post 'em if anybody's interested.

(where the heck did I file those &^%#@ things )

And to answer your questions, with practice it seems to be a tie between MC and speed

loaders (read that somewhere here) I guess Bubber is the El Suprimo loading with loaders.

The biggest thing I like is that all my brass comes out of the cylinder at once. And when you

hit the mark you don't have to push a little more to release the rnds.

BUT ! ! the 7 shot moons are the toughest to load (IMHO) depending on how you load a moon clip that opening in the center just isn't big enough for my finger tip. The easier the

brass is to load into a clip the more likely it is to flop around in the clip.

Chamfering and polishing is a must, how much is good debate but some chamfering has to

be done to aid in the smoothness of the reload.

And you'll wait any where's from 2 weeks to 6 months to have the job done, good part is

you don't have to send the whole gun to have it done, if the smith says no, he needs the

whole gun then he's (she's!) either very through or hasn't a clue what there doing.

(All we're doing is making clearance for a thin metal clip folks)

There's a distinguished forum member here who mooncliped his 586 with a dremel

tool so anythings possible!

(and man was i stretching it with that word "distinguished")

Thanks Dave,

I have a 6 shot 686, but the information still applies. I really wondered how much the moons flop around our if they stay pretty rigid when loading.

The time delay is also important. To not have my revolver for 6 months would be real bad. It would be real tough to go all summer without shooting it, and then try to go to the Nats.

Thanks again.

Jim Carr

[MasterLefty]

Back in the 80's, when I was running revolver, I sent my 586 cylinder to Ranch Products. The cost was around $50 with a bunch of moon clips.

They cut the cylinder on a sinker edm, very clean with no burrs.

Kenny

[hdgun]

There's a distinguished forum member here who mooncliped his 586 with a dremel

tool blink.gif so anythings possible!

(and man was i stretching it with that word "distinguished")

Thanks for the compliment Dave, BTW: you suck too!!!

What Dave says is true, I did my first and second with a dremel.

It wasnt hard to do. I wont expain how I did it, but it works just fine. With or with out the clips.

[Paul B]

My brother had a Model 29 Smith cut for a moon-clip several years ago so he could shoot the rimless .44 Auto-mag ammo in it. This is just a trimmed 30.06 or .308 case reamed. He liked the ability to reload quickly and just the uniqueness of the conversion. The gunsmith did a great job, but said it was a royal b**ch milling the cylinder because it was so hard. Don't know if the older 29's had tougher metal or if the new processes work the metal better.

[aerosigns]

Just talked to the revolver guy at Clark Custom.

He said that cutting my 686 6 shot cylinder might take 2-6 weeks. They usually wait until they get a few cylinders to do, so they can make one set up.

The person I talked to also recommended having the cylinder chamfered and polishing the cylinder. He felt that I would get a lot from that.

He said if I didn't think the chamfer was enough, I could send it back and they would do more. "Some of them boys hawg 'em out till they kinda 'waller' in there."

Sounds like a definite to do item.

Jim Carr

[hdgun]

Just be carefull not to chamfer the cylinder too much, if done too much you will not be able to shoot the gun with out moon clips. The round will sit too deep and will incure missfires.

[aerosigns]

Excellent tip. Thanks.

[pskys2]

Contact TK Custom, Tom is great working with us shooters. He has a bang up website and sells about everything associated with Moon Clips.

I had a M29-3 done by Clark and it works great with .44 Russians, Specials and even Magnums, it only cost about $75 for the actual Moon Clip Cuts. Actually used it for a couple of years in IPSC.