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Did .357Sig ever go through?


aandabooks

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I remember it being in the board minutes last year as a proposed major caliber for Limited. Before I start on building a Limited gun in .357Sig, I want to make sure it is a legal caliber. I really like this caliber and once reloading is figured out it is easy to load for.

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From 14 Sep 14 BOD minutes:

Review of Division Change: 357sig Major PF for
Limited/L10
Motion:
To change Limited/Limited 10 Divisions to allow
357sig caliber as major power factor eligible effective
January 1, 2015.
Moved:
A7
Seconded:
A5 PASSED

Since this is not in the rule book or the NROI rulings, as far as I am concerned, it ain't real yet. I have sent Troy an email asking why it is not in any of the official rule/ruling sources.

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Just a tip from Oz (where .357 Sig for Standard Major originated). Most of us are loading heavy bullets going slow rather than light bullets going fast. I'm talking 160-185 grains making 180+PF. If we had the option to shoot .40 we probably all would (but we don't, so we live Sig!).

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I just heard back from Troy. The ruling never got published on the rulings page. He is working the problem so it is posted correctly. He is also going to get the CO rules on the rules page ;) Pretty sweet: I send a note on a holiday evening and he has started the fix the next day. Thanks, Troy!

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Since it sounds like the ruling went through and .357Sig is a go I'll probably be looking for a donor gun to get setup. Since the market is not exactly robust for this caliber a gun in .40 with a aftermarket barrel might be the way to go. Maybe a XDm 5.25 with a Storm Lake barrel will be the way to go.

Or Sig is making the 320 in .357Sig but I'm not sure on the aftermarket add-ons to get into a Limited gun.

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Since it sounds like the ruling went through and .357Sig is a go I'll probably be looking for a donor gun to get setup. Since the market is not exactly robust for this caliber a gun in .40 with a aftermarket barrel might be the way to go. Maybe a XDm 5.25 with a Storm Lake barrel will be the way to go.

Or Sig is making the 320 in .357Sig but I'm not sure on the aftermarket add-ons to get into a Limited gun.

320 is offered in 357SIG

MATT1, if you could share some starting loads with various powders for the 160gr I will work up some L10 loads for my 226. I have a few thousand 160gr bullets I would like to use

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Did they just allow .357 Sig, or are 9x25 Dillon and 9x23 legal now as well?

I'm pretty sure the minutes only discussed the .357Sig.

The reason behind allowing the 357 Sig and not the 9x25 or 9x23 was the parent case. While the 9x25 does use a 10mm case, there are very few guns and people using it versus a commercially produced round such as the 357Sig. As for the 9x23, it uses a 9mm size case, and therefore would change the game as far as capacity in the guns.
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Ok, using 150gn bullets you could try:

ADI AP100 start at 7.0gn

VV 3N38 start at 7.6gn

Using 170gn bullets:

VV 3N38 start at 6.4gn

This is for IPSC where I need 170PF for Major so I load to 180PF. You could back it off a bit more if you need to make less.

These were shot in a CZ TS loading to 1.15" OAL.

The ADI website has a good burn rate equivalent table that's quite accurate if you can't get ADI powders.

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Matt1, what's your load for running 160's and 185's? And where do you get 185 grain 9mm's? I've never even heard of them.

These are made by local Aussie bullet castors and Hitek coated. One maker does a 178gn RN, another does a 185gn RN. Both are very popular. Our castors get their molds from the U.S. So it shouldn't be too hard to source some over there. Only suitable for 2011 type guns though cause you can't load them short enough for CZ's or Glocks.

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The reason behind allowing the 357 Sig and not the 9x25 or 9x23 was the parent case. While the 9x25 does use a 10mm case, there are very few guns and people using it versus a commercially produced round such as the 357Sig. As for the 9x23, it uses a 9mm size case, and therefore would change the game as far as capacity in the guns.

The capacity difference between .40/10mm/,357SIG and 9x23 isn't as great as from .45 to .40... When it was decided that ,40 S&W would be the minimum allowable caliber to make major, there weren't any 9mm factory loads that made major (albeit 175 or higher pf in effect at the time) and that was a criteria used for Limited then. Those rules have changed. As far as the 'few guns produced' argument, it's completely moot if we're talking production, and I think it is for limited as well since you can build whatever you want.

.357SIG at 165 pf is in the upper end of the pressure window, I don't know if it's better or worse than .40 S&W. 9x25 or 9x23 starting loads are over 165 pf, plus they'd probably feed better in large framed (i.e. S_i 2011) guns.

If they're going to open up Limited for 9mm caliber major that's fine, but just .357SIG? I don't get it.

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I thought it had to do with folk who live in places where civvies can't use le/mil calibers. This allows those folk to play and doesnt change capacity in the 140mm magazine. Easier to simply allow a single standard cartridge rather than open it up the creative minds of USPSA competitiors and deal with a new capacity race.

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I thought it had to do with folk who live in places where civvies can't use le/mil calibers. This allows those folk to play and doesnt change capacity in the 140mm magazine. Easier to simply allow a single standard cartridge rather than open it up the creative minds of USPSA competitiors and deal with a new capacity race.

My understanding is that you are correct.

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The reason behind allowing the 357 Sig and not the 9x25 or 9x23 was the parent case. While the 9x25 does use a 10mm case, there are very few guns and people using it versus a commercially produced round such as the 357Sig. As for the 9x23, it uses a 9mm size case, and therefore would change the game as far as capacity in the guns.

The capacity difference between .40/10mm/,357SIG and 9x23 isn't as great as from .45 to .40... When it was decided that ,40 S&W would be the minimum allowable caliber to make major, there weren't any 9mm factory loads that made major (albeit 175 or higher pf in effect at the time) and that was a criteria used for Limited then. Those rules have changed. As far as the 'few guns produced' argument, it's completely moot if we're talking production, and I think it is for limited as well since you can build whatever you want.

.357SIG at 165 pf is in the upper end of the pressure window, I don't know if it's better or worse than .40 S&W. 9x25 or 9x23 starting loads are over 165 pf, plus they'd probably feed better in large framed (i.e. S_i 2011) guns.

If they're going to open up Limited for 9mm caliber major that's fine, but just .357SIG? I don't get it.

In IPSC, Major for Standard (your Limited) is 170PF. Most people here load to around the 180 mark. My 170gn load in my TS came out at 190PF and its holding up fine.

As far as I know the push to allow .357 Sig for Major in IPSC was driven by Australia but not because we can't use mil/LE calls. It's because we can't use cals bigger than .38 for IPSC (long story, it's slowly changing, we can now use up to .45 in Classic in one state only).

So it was requested to allow .357 Sig to make major because a) the round can do it easily and b ) there's no capacity advantage (not that that matters here because we are limited to 10 rounds anyway). This was a temporary (trial) rule for a while but I believe it's permanent now.

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