Skeeter190 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I witnessed him doing this on two occasions at this match today. He was very nonchalant about it and seemed he could care less when questioned about it. I got the impression with this guy that its a do as i say not as i do mentality with him. Edited September 6, 2015 by Skeeter190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 This is odd to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 If he really replied "so what?", he should not be an RM, or allowed back to a USPSA event. He obviously does not respect the rules or the safety of the other competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbarrel Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'm pretty timid when it comes to pointing out violations when I'm in a squad but especially the second time and definitely with the sweep. My blood pressure would have shot up and my face turned red. I would have marched back there and firmly told him he just cant do that. No questions. If he stormed off or the match was stopped, so what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levellinebrad Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have passed it up the line through uspsa. It is being handled. Thanks for the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedemon45 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I was informed of this immediately after it happened and was able to pull him aside and have a discussion. He understands it was wrong and regrets the lapse in judgement. There is no exception to the rules for match officials and he has since asked his stats officer to record a DQ for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Well that's over with !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I won't tolerate sweeping. I think you can be safe outside the uspsa rules, but it sounds like this was more than breaking a technicality in the rules. This is actually so bad it sounds made up. Does not matter in the least how safe somebody is"outside" the rules because there is no such thing during a match. What sounds made up about it? I've been in classes where everyone walks around with a loaded gun. I don't consider it unsafe. USPSA has its own set of rules. They work well. I have no issues with them and no problem following them at matches. If someone breaks those rules, I am fine with DQ'ing them. That's fine, we can still be friends. If you start muzzling me and my friends, we're going to have words, and I'm not shooting with you anymore. I'm just talking about the difference between "you're DQ'd" and "I'm never squadding with you again" Edited September 6, 2015 by b1gcountry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I was informed of this immediately after it happened and was able to pull him aside and have a discussion. He understands it was wrong and regrets the lapse in judgement. There is no exception to the rules for match officials and he has since asked his stats officer to record a DQ for the match. Well done and thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I won't tolerate sweeping. I think you can be safe outside the uspsa rules, but it sounds like this was more than breaking a technicality in the rules. This is actually so bad it sounds made up. Does not matter in the least how safe somebody is"outside" the rules because there is no such thing during a match. What sounds made up about it? I've been in classes where everyone walks around with a loaded gun. I don't consider it unsafe. USPSA has its own set of rules. They work well. I have no issues with them and no problem following them at matches. If someone breaks those rules, I am fine with DQ'ing them. That's fine, we can still be friends. If you start muzzling me and my friends, we're going to have words, and I'm not shooting with you anymore. I'm just talking about the difference between "you're DQ'd" and "I'm never squadding with you again" Sounds made up as in its so ludicrous and hard to fathom. I certainly don't doubt it happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Gotcha. I misunderstood what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I was informed of this immediately after it happened and was able to pull him aside and have a discussion. He understands it was wrong and regrets the lapse in judgement. There is no exception to the rules for match officials and he has since asked his stats officer to record a DQ for the match. Did he explain why it happened more than once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I was informed of this immediately after it happened and was able to pull him aside and have a discussion. He understands it was wrong and regrets the lapse in judgement. There is no exception to the rules for match officials and he has since asked his stats officer to record a DQ for the match. Can't ask for more than that. Sounds like it was properly handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) I shot a match today where the range master was taking his gun off and on between stages. He was not at either of the 2 safe areas, he would just pull up and gun up behind us as we were shooting and then he would take his gun off behind us when he was done shooting. I'm an RO but not staff at this particular range. Should this have been a DQ? Either way, I think it's very unprofessional and sets a bad example.Yes he should be DQ'd.The Range Master Has To Follow The Rules Like Everyone Else, He should set the example. Glad he ended up doing the right thing. Edited September 9, 2015 by bret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Good to hear this was handled professionally. Not knowing any of the players I humbly offer this: If a guy devotes a lot of his most precious resource, time...to this game... And he feels very comfortable with his commitment to safety and gun handling skills, And he is the first guy to show up and the last one to leave, Perhaps he develops a skewed perspective on the rules. I'm not saying it is right or even OK, but it happens. In my career field, I see the "salty old smoke eaters" violate personal protective equipment SOP's that would get get a new guy face graped. It is not right, but it happens. We forget that adherence to rules is non negotiable, and that setting a good example is perhaps one of the most influential and important things a senior man can do. So the first remedy is reminding them of the critical importance of leading by example, failing that resolution thru chain of command. Not tolerating a rouge that becomes an abscess. Well done, and thank you for looking after our sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm sure the fellow did not have it in his mind to flagrantly flout the safety rules. Who among us has not needed grace extended to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm sure the fellow did not have it in his mind to flagrantly flout the safety rules. Who among us has not needed grace extended to us? "Grace" is letting the next shooter go get mags after the make ready because he has been an RO all day and he forgot them after the last shooter. "Grace" is not skirting the rules with an arrogant nonchalance of "so what". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm sure the fellow did not have it in his mind to flagrantly flout the safety rules. Who among us has not needed grace extended to us?"Grace" is letting the next shooter go get mags after the make ready because he has been an RO all day and he forgot them after the last shooter. "Grace" is not skirting the rules with an arrogant nonchalance of "so what". You are right. It is not grace, that implies simple oversight. It is about being reminded of professionalism and accountability. It is about a positive course correction. And just as importantly, it is about formal remedial action through organizational authority when appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Yes, we can have bad days. And it's still a DQ, because it's ultimately about safety. And he should take it with grace, being a believer in keeping the sport safe, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm sure the fellow did not have it in his mind to flagrantly flout the safety rules. Who among us has not needed grace extended to us?"Grace" is letting the next shooter go get mags after the make ready because he has been an RO all day and he forgot them after the last shooter. "Grace" is not skirting the rules with an arrogant nonchalance of "so what". Nail on the head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 how I would have handled it. If I saw the RM or CRO take a gun out of a bag, sweep people (including myself) and then holster the gun to prepare for a stage I would wait for the current shooter to complete the stage, scoring to be completed, then approach the RO on that stage. mention that this COMPETITOR (which is all he is at that point) has completed a safety violation. At that point I would assume any RO worth the name would approach the person in question. Ask him if that did in fact happen, assuming the RM has some level of decency at this point he admits what he's done and the stage RO DQ's him for unsafe gun handling. If he had no self worth and chose to lie and deny my version of events then the RO would be in a more difficult position. I would suggest in that case he could either ask if anyone else witnessed the incident. If a 2nd witness was forthcoming then it's DQ (perhaps for unsportsmanlike conduct?), if no other witness was forthcoming then I'd suggest the best he could do would be 'warn' the competitor and remind him that when coming to shoot a stage he must bag/unbag at the safe area just like everyone else. Safety is the responsibility of us all. Competitors being swept by a RM's gun while he gets it in/out of the holster is just 1 step away from something bad happening. Even though you were not acting as an RO on that stage it's totally within your rights (and I would argue it's your responsibility too) to report what happened to the stage RO. I can't imagine someone who is supposed to be setting an example would think this is 'ok' behaviour at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e5gator Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 this sounds like a guy who is taking the title of range master to a level of totalitarianism where he thinks the rules don't apply to him. A DQ would have done hime good to set him back on the righteous path, or he would have played the d#ck measuring game and made the rest of the match not for for your or anyone else around that dint have the minerals to put him in his place. If it happens again, I suggest pulling him aside and reminding him of the rule, telling him he is DQed and see where he wants to take it. If he gets huffy, pack your bags and leave. My shooting time is for fun, not jack-assery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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