CCI Blaser aluminum cases

[JD45]

They say don't load these. But they are boxer primed and load great. They hold a bullet tight and spec out perfect.

So, what's wrong with a minor load in these?

[P.E. Kelley]

They did not used to be Boxer primed. When did that change? Berdan primed was to prohibit their reloading.

[dave33]

They say don't load these. But they are boxer primed and load great. They hold a bullet tight and spec out perfect.

So, what's wrong with a minor load in these?

I dont know if its a good idea or not but I have heard of folks reloading steel/aluminum cased ammo before that supposedly fired with no issue. My concern would be neck tension and the possibility of bullet setback as Im sure steel/aluminum have different tension rates after being worked, but thats all a guess on my part.

Just for curiosity once I took a handful of steel cases I had laying around and ran them through my press as if to reload them, not priming, just resizing, flairing, bullet seating and crimping. They seemed to load fine and I didnt get any bullet setback on a push test against my bench. I was mostly interested in finding out how many reloadings they would stand up to so I continually made and pulled a few until they split. In the small handful I was messing with, probably 6-8, I got almost exactly the same result, 6 reloadings and they split.

[coordinator]

They, CCI, do not advise reloading aluminum cases. However, I took a batch of 20 once fired 10mm cases and reloaded as an experiment. I stopped at the fifth reload. Primer pockets were still snug and no split cases.

[zmanktm]

I tested 100 reloaded rounds through my 9 minor open gun and saw no issues. With that being said, 9 brass is so easy to come by why take a chance that the Ballistic Gods would say ”todays the day I blow something up!”

[Intel6]

What happens when you decap the blazer cases the decapping pin breaks out the center between the two berdan flash holes getting rid of the anvil. This results in a large jagged "flash hole" and some of the bottom of the pocket remaining which lets a regular boxer primer get seated so the case can be reloaded. It works but usually the cases split after the 2nd firing from my experience.

Years ago the blazer cases were loaded with an odd sized primer which was sized between small and large pistol. I worked at a commercial ammunition reloader in college and a blazer .38 case would slip through every once in a while. it would break out the bottom of the primer pocket but since the primer pocket was bigger the primer didn't seat and fell right back out. When we were packaging the ammo I would find them loaded with bullet and powder but no primer.

Neal in AZ

[Acp71]

I told a friend you could not reload aluminum. The next time I saw him he handed me a box of 50 38 specials. They work fine in a revolver.

[Guy Neill]

When I worked for CCi-Speer I had to explain this fairly frequently. It's never been a matter that the aluminum case could not be reloaded, it is that they should not be reloaded.

When CCI first developed the aluminum cases they reloaded them 15 - 20 times to prove their durability, so, technically, they can be reloaded.

I'm fairly certain I have covered the issues in my column in the past - maybe it's time to revisit the issue since both CCI and Herter's now offer aluminum cased ammunition.

The move to Boxer primers for the Blazer cases is, I feel certain, an economic move by ATK (it was before spinning off the sporting equipment groups to Vista), very likely due to wanting to eliminate the need to make the Berdan primers. I do wonder if they have seen an increase in complaints as a result.

I don't know the exact date changes were made, but the first I know of them was at least ten years ago when a friend asked my about it - not long after I left CCI-Speer. I don't know that it was a clean break at a specific time. I suspect it was phased in for each cartridge as tooling was replaced and stocks of Berdan primers were used up.

Even though I now have no affiliation with CCI-Speer, I would still advise against reloading the aluminum cases.

Guy

[JRM83]

I tested 100 reloaded rounds through my 9 minor open gun and saw no issues. With that being said, 9 brass is so easy to come by why take a chance that the Ballistic Gods would say ”todays the day I blow something up!”

Bingo.

When I worked for CCi-Speer I had to explain this fairly frequently. It's never been a matter that the aluminum case could not be reloaded, it is that they should not be reloaded.

When CCI first developed the aluminum cases they reloaded them 15 - 20 times to prove their durability, so, technically, they can be reloaded.

I'm fairly certain I have covered the issues in my column in the past - maybe it's time to revisit the issue since both CCI and Herter's now offer aluminum cased ammunition.

The move to Boxer primers for the Blazer cases is, I feel certain, an economic move by ATK (it was before spinning off the sporting equipment groups to Vista), very likely due to wanting to eliminate the need to make the Berdan primers. I do wonder if they have seen an increase in complaints as a result.

I don't know the exact date changes were made, but the first I know of them was at least ten years ago when a friend asked my about it - not long after I left CCI-Speer. I don't know that it was a clean break at a specific time. I suspect it was phased in for each cartridge as tooling was replaced and stocks of Berdan primers were used up.

Even though I now have no affiliation with CCI-Speer, I would still advise against reloading the aluminum cases.

Guy

I understand that CCI is advising against loading them, but what is the specific reason? What mode of failure causes these cases to be more dangerous to reload than brass?

[jmorris]

They don't have very good neck tension to begin with and have NR stamped on the base of the case. That stands for Not Reloadable.

I know a guy that took this as a challenge and showed everyone how smart he was doing the impossible in reloading aluminum cases.

After 6 months he could finally see the erosion in the chamber of the Kart barrel he then needed to replace.

That's when he learned the difference between can't and shouldn't.

[DefiantMenace]

They don't have very good neck tension to begin with and have NR stamped on the base of the case. That stands for Not Reloadable.

I know a guy that took this as a challenge and showed everyone how smart he was doing the impossible in reloading aluminum cases.

After 6 months he could finally see the erosion in the chamber of the Kart barrel he then needed to replace.

That's when he learned the difference between can't and shouldn't.

How did case type cause erosion in the chamber? I reload them all the time and I have never noticed anything, they all gauge just fine. Perhaps I should take a better look the next time I clean my g19 as it has shot the bulk of them.

[dr2e]

Why take the risk of doing something the manufacture says not to do? Isn't the whole high pressure experience thing exciting enough without having to put another variable in the equation?

[Glockinator]

It's never been a matter that the aluminum case could not be reloaded, it is that they should not be reloaded.

A truer statement has never been said on this subject.

A lot of decision are made on wide safety margins. Just because you "can" cross a safety margin does not mean you should. Sometimes you can get away with a little bit, but push the line a little more and things can get hairy quick. Things like that were why the decision was made to keep a distance from that threshold. Aluminum does not have the same spring back nor workability characteristics as brass. Sure it may work a time or two and then fail in a spectacular fashion instead of giving the signs of fatigue we are used to with brass. I would not want to take the chance when brass is easy enough to get.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Glockinator

[Trini]

Why doesn't CCI sell primed aluminium cases to freeloaders?

[Guy Neill]

The primary reason not to reuse the aluminum cases has to do with corrosion. From the factory they have several coatings applied to the aluminum. Some are for lubricity, while others are to guard against corrosion.

When you resize the cases, the sizing action scrapes away the coatings, exposing the base aluminum. Aluminum does not corrode the way brass doe. While verdigris is a surface condition for brass, aluminum corrosion forms pits into the case wall. Depending on how bad, depends on how deep. You the human eye the corrosion pit merely seems to be a black dot. A small black dot.

Should the case rupture because of the corrosion, you have a jet of high pressure, hot gases that will erode the chamber, or breech of the gun. Since we don't know how bad (deep) the corrosion is by looking at it, we don't know when the case will rupture.

Part of my job at CCI-Speer included dealing with any customer problems. I had quite a collection of damaged guns ion my office - for a variety of causes. One of the first things I looked at if we could get (Blazer) ammunition back that had been involved in a problem was if the cases were corroded or not. Split aluminum cases that have a jagged, lightning bolt sort of pattern indicates the crack was due to corrosion - the crack is connecting the dots - the corrosion pits. A straight crack was normally due to a scratch or other mechanical damage to the casing.

Also, since reloading dies are designed for brass cases, the resizing action may not be "correct" for the aluminum (or steel, for that matter). There is a degree of springback after sizing that the reloading dies are designed for - for brass. The springback for aluminum of steel may be different (I haven't researched that). Some have mentioned problems with neck tension, and that's a definite possibility. Too tight may be be a real problem, but too loose can allow bullet setback. And we know that is bad since it increased pressure upon firing..

There's also the matter of internal volume. The factory develops the loadbased on the cartridge and the powder/bullet. The reloading date we have is all developed using brass cases. The internal volume of aluminum cases may be significantly different, so our loading results may vary greatly from what we expect.

Those are the main reasons. I personally feel ATK's economy move was a mistake, but they didn't ask me. I'm also not going to reload aluminum or steel cases.

Be careful!

Guy

[dr2e]

Guy if your posting isn't enough to convince folks not to reuse the non-brass cases then I don't what will. Thanks for sharing the info.

Edited August 8, 2015 by dr2e

[AJE]

I have in the past and no longer will. They split very easy and I noticed some erosion in the chamber of the gun I shot it in the most.

[JRM83]

Thanks for the information Guy. I have always wondered why it was a no-go and now I know,

[yellowfin]

They are excellent for dummy rounds, being obvious enough by being aluminum. All they have to do is hold a bullet and fit in the magazines to correctly weight them for dry practice. I pick up several every range trip just for that purpose.

[Shmella]

They are excellent for dummy rounds, being obvious enough by being aluminum. All they have to do is hold a bullet and fit in the magazines to correctly weight them for dry practice. I pick up several every range trip just for that purpose.

seems like the only good use for fired aluminum cases. ..

[DefiantMenace]

Well I pulled apart my g19, and for contrast I pulled apart my g23. The g19 has probably had at least 1k to 2k rounds of reloaded aluminum cases through it. The g23 has had none. The inside of the g19 barrel shows no erosion of any kind. Aside from being a little dirty its in perfect condition. I understand that people have had issues before, but I really don't think its as cut and dry as reload aluminum cases and your barrel is soon to go LOL. Also I reload everything, I don't sort out anything, I just case gauge them when its all over and shoot. I have also never had a aluminum case split, lots of brass ones have but no aluminum that I have noticed. I will keep reloading aluminum, but that's just me, we all have to make and live with our own choices, but for the record so far aluminum in 9mm FOR ME is a win.

Disclaimer no animals were harmed during filming :-P

Edited August 12, 2015 by DefiantMenace

[AJE]

I said that once too.

The last match I shot was exclusively aluminum cased reloads. Pay close attention to the last array on the first stage.

Two of the rounds had a flamethrower effect out of the chamber. It's not just a light show, it is hurting the chamber and breech face.

I'll take pictures next time I clean it.

Edited August 12, 2015 by AJE

[RDA]

I said that once too.

The last match I shot was exclusively aluminum cased reloads. Pay close attention to the last array on the first stage.

Two of the rounds had a flamethrower effect out of the chamber. It's not just a light show, it is hurting the chamber and breech face.

I'll take pictures next time I clean it.

Sorry to hijack, but that is really good video (and nice work shooting too, very impressive). I also see what you were noting, the flashes around ~0:26 or so (and again around 3:34 and 3:41).

That is a video demonstrating good video technique as well as good shooting. Thanks for sharing.

[AJE]

Thank you

[dr2e]

Well I pulled apart my g19, and for contrast I pulled apart my g23. The g19 has probably had at least 1k to 2k rounds of reloaded aluminum cases through it. The g23 has had none. The inside of the g19 barrel shows no erosion of any kind. Aside from being a little dirty its in perfect condition. I understand that people have had issues before, but I really don't think its as cut and dry as reload aluminum cases and your barrel is soon to go LOL. Also I reload everything, I don't sort out anything, I just case gauge them when its all over and shoot. I have also never had a aluminum case split, lots of brass ones have but no aluminum that I have noticed. I will keep reloading aluminum, but that's just me, we all have to make and live with our own choices, but for the record so far aluminum in 9mm FOR ME is a win.

Disclaimer no animals were harmed during filming :-P

Good luck!