Grip question - thumb on non-dominant hand

[sray53txtn]

My "big" mistake from both videos was my off/support hand index finger location. I was placing it at the front of the trigger guard and it was the reason I was pulling the pistol left and low. Tried the new position and an immediate improvement.

Thanks for great advice!

[Rangerdug]

I think is going to be dependent on the gun too... Glocks you have that lip of the frame to press down with the thumb, a poor mans *thumb rest [generic]*. The 2011's you don't, and can't. I can't speak in great detail on the M&P.

I will say running to the range and trying it once isn't necessarily the proof positive either. When you worked out the new car smell, and are still going strong after a couple 1,000 rounds, with the same or better results then you're on to something.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[turbopower18]

I believe this is a to each their own issue. Train with what works best for you. I recetly put a Nitrofin on my STI and couldnt be happier!

[GunBugBit]

I've stopped trying to rotate my support hand forward. Although I do get a gain in mitigating muzzle flip that way, I find it unnatural and uncomfortable. Instead, I emphasize a good firm support hand, with my support thumb comfortably up at about 45 degrees, not touching the slide or frame. For some with more flexibility, the thumb held horizontally or even tilted down is sustainable and works very well. I recently watched Bob Vogel's explanation of his grip on YouTube and can really see the advantage of being to do what he does with his support hand. My current grip is more like Ben Stoeger's. Neither guy has any problem managing recoil or muzzle flip.

[jroback]

GunBug: I think this is exactly the right way to proceed. Collect a lot of different options, try them out yourself, and figure out what works best for you. I also found the full roll-over locked support hand wrist to be a bit uncomfortable, although recoil control was superb. I tried your current grip (the Stoeger grip), and it was much more comfortable, and easy to draw into, but the gun felt "out of control". I went back to the previous way, and it has become more comfortable with time.

[waktasz]

I've stopped trying to rotate my support hand forward. Although I do get a gain in mitigating muzzle flip that way, I find it unnatural and uncomfortable. Instead, I emphasize a good firm support hand, with my support thumb comfortably up at about 45 degrees, not touching the slide or frame. For some with more flexibility, the thumb held horizontally or even tilted down is sustainable and works very well. I recently watched Bob Vogel's explanation of his grip on YouTube and can really see the advantage of being to do what he does with his support hand. My current grip is more like Ben Stoeger's. Neither guy has any problem managing recoil or muzzle flip.

One of the advantages to rotating the wrist is that you get the base of you weak hand up higher on the gun, for more leverage. If your weak hand is straight, I don't see how you can get as high on the gun, so you are probably giving up control, even if it feels more natural, for now.

[d_striker]

I've stopped trying to rotate my support hand forward. Although I do get a gain in mitigating muzzle flip that way, I find it unnatural and uncomfortable. Instead, I emphasize a good firm support hand, with my support thumb comfortably up at about 45 degrees, not touching the slide or frame. For some with more flexibility, the thumb held horizontally or even tilted down is sustainable and works very well. I recently watched Bob Vogel's explanation of his grip on YouTube and can really see the advantage of being to do what he does with his support hand. My current grip is more like Ben Stoeger's. Neither guy has any problem managing recoil or muzzle flip.

Broadly speaking, continuing to do what's comfortable for you is not going to help you progress. Just sayin'.

[GunBugBit]

I've stopped trying to rotate my support hand forward. Although I do get a gain in mitigating muzzle flip that way, I find it unnatural and uncomfortable. Instead, I emphasize a good firm support hand, with my support thumb comfortably up at about 45 degrees, not touching the slide or frame. For some with more flexibility, the thumb held horizontally or even tilted down is sustainable and works very well. I recently watched Bob Vogel's explanation of his grip on YouTube and can really see the advantage of being to do what he does with his support hand. My current grip is more like Ben Stoeger's. Neither guy has any problem managing recoil or muzzle flip.

Broadly speaking, continuing to do what's comfortable for you is not going to help you progress. Just sayin'.

And yet, I have progressed. Just sayin'.

[d_striker]

I've stopped trying to rotate my support hand forward. Although I do get a gain in mitigating muzzle flip that way, I find it unnatural and uncomfortable. Instead, I emphasize a good firm support hand, with my support thumb comfortably up at about 45 degrees, not touching the slide or frame. For some with more flexibility, the thumb held horizontally or even tilted down is sustainable and works very well. I recently watched Bob Vogel's explanation of his grip on YouTube and can really see the advantage of being to do what he does with his support hand. My current grip is more like Ben Stoeger's. Neither guy has any problem managing recoil or muzzle flip.

Broadly speaking, continuing to do what's comfortable for you is not going to help you progress. Just sayin'.

And yet, I have progressed. Just sayin'.

Good work. Keep it up and see how far doing what's comfortable takes you.

[GunBugBit]

Check that condescending attitude, young man, and worry about your own shooting.

[jroback]

I think its important to point out that you can find champions who point their thumbs up at 45 degrees (Stoeger), straight ahead (Enos), and down (Vogel). Just based on that small sample size, I think it can be said with certainty that there is no one right way to position your thumbs. You just need to find the optimal gun, grip style, and hand position that works with your individual hand structure (size, etc).

Edited January 28, 2016 by jroback

[Jake Di Vita]

I agree that in general when it comes to anything athletic if what you are doing is comfortable it is probably wrong or at the least less than ideal. Most of time, you have to fight to maintain ideal position. That isn't to say you can't make progress otherwise because clearly you can, but it will likely limit your ability to improve at some point.

[d_striker]

Check that condescending attitude, young man, and worry about your own shooting.

It wasn't my intent to be condescending. When I type brief messages on my phone it just comes off that way. As far as the young man comment, I wish I was younger than I am.

I made that comment because I was exactly where you are. I was fortunate enough to have many great shooters coach me on my grip. At the time, I made the same rationalization you're making now. I didn't want to switch to a higher grip because it simply wasn't comfortable. Deep down at the root of it, I simply wasn't willing to put in the work to the point where it wasnt uncomfortable anymore.

Any new skill or deviation from how you've been accustomed to doing things is going to feel uncomfortable. Let me step back and preface this point though. If your goals are to be a C or B class shooter and that's it, you're probably fine doing things within your comfort zone. If your goals are to perform consistently at an M or GM level, you're absolutely going to have to get out of your comfort zone. Especially for something as crucial as your grip.

I truly wish someone had checked my ego years ago. The longer you do something, the harder it is to unlearn.

[k1llapanda]

Lots of food for thought in this. Glad I stumbled