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Starting to load 223 for multigun and I have questions


david8989

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Okay guys, I'm an experienced reloader and have loaded 223 for AR's before. Just need to get some advice to direct me to step one. First off I will be loading for a rifle with an adj gas block/ JP captured spring w/ a 1-8" twist barrel so I will be able to tune the gun once I find a load.

1) Is it cost effective to reload your 55gr practice ammo? Looked at prices and it seems close

2) Do yall use different loads for practice and match? 55 & 69gr?

3) DO you develop a load first then tune your rifle to it or tune the rifle then find the load it likes?

4) Are yall loading for max power, power factor, or softest round possible?

Thanks for the help guys

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You are going to find LOTS of different answers and probably some old threads that touch on the subject as well. You can load for a little less than you can purchase same-quality ammo. Most load to create ammo that shoots the way they want. I have 2 loads myself; one is ultra-soft with the cheapest projectiles I can find for all the shorter range blasting stages where I mostly just need to poke holes in paper, the second load is a very warm load for the flattest shooting (but still accurate) round for activating steel targets at distance.

I took the path of setting up the rifle as I wanted it and then tweaked the load(s) to make sure everything works together happily.

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Fair enough, so when you are loading 2 different loads for a match are you zeroing with the precision load and just memorizing where the soft load hits in relation to the center of the reticle? Or just adjusting the turrets on the scope depending on which ammo you will use for the stage?

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I've found that my close load and long load will hit the "same" out to 200 yards. I say the "same" because they probably don't. But with the typical 4 MOA+ targets in 3 gun it doesn't matter. There's enough give in 4 MOA targets that you can use different ammo and still hit them with the same hold. That 200 can be stretched up to 250-300 yards if you play with your loads to better match each other.

Right now with previously bought primed and processed 223 brass from X-Treme $115/1000, 24 grains of WC844 ~$12/lb bought in 2011, 55 grain blemished copper bullets ~$60/1000 I'm about at $210 per 1000 bullets. If I processed my own brass it would be less.

Right now $320-$340 for 1000 factory loaded new 55's. I can do about a 1000 rds an hour. So I'm "paying" myself $50+ an hour tax free if I compare it to new ammo. Around $30-$40 if I bought reloaded 223.

If I had regular priced components I would probably just buy factory ammo for close range ammo.

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Lol! I guess I need to get out of my precision rifle reloading mindset. I'm so used to shooting at 1-1.5 MOA targets that I was kinda stressing about making it all work together. Okay, well I will probably just make a 55gr light load and a stronger 69gr load for longer range stuff. Those that are reloading what bullets are you using? I was thinking the Hornady 55gr FMJBT and 68gr HPBT with WIN 748, cci 400 primers, LC brass. How do those sound assuming the rifle likes them?

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Well I checked out Montana, extreme, and hi tech ammo and all were higher than just going with plain jane hornady fmjbt. I did find an interesting site called evergladesammo, anyone ever used them. They've got their 55gr fmjbt for $89/1K with free shipping. May be good enough for blasting away with.

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I shoot two loads.

My long range load used to be the 53gr V-max but I've since moved to the 69gr SMK for a bit more energy on target. I worked up the 69gr load for accuracy and velocity to match my reticle. I then tuned my gas system to it so I don't batter the gun. I then worked up the 55gr hoser load to be very light. I zero for the 69gr load at 200 and check to see where the 55gr load hits. Like Religious Shooter said, they both hit within a typical 3gun target.

I shoot the same 55gr handload for practice as for matches.

A great way to manage the ballistics of the two loads is with an iPhone/Android ballistic app called Strelok. You put in all your variables, range and target size and it can show an image of the reticle with target and where the shot will go. You can scale the magnification up and down and it can take into account a zero with one load and offset for a second. It's been invaluable for my long range game and even short range clays, especially when flanked by no-shoots.

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Okay guys, I'm an experienced reloader and have loaded 223 for AR's before. Just need to get some advice to direct me to step one. First off I will be loading for a rifle with an adj gas block/ JP captured spring w/ a 1-8" twist barrel so I will be able to tune the gun once I find a load.

1) Is it cost effective to reload your 55gr practice ammo? Looked at prices and it seems close

2) Do yall use different loads for practice and match? 55 & 69gr?

3) DO you develop a load first then tune your rifle to it or tune the rifle then find the load it likes?

4) Are yall loading for max power, power factor, or softest round possible?

Thanks for the help guys

Im not a competitive shooter, but I do reload alot. Your rifle should do fine. 1-8 twist barrels will shoot just about anything decently accurate until you get to the extreme top or bottom of the bullet weight spectrum.

1) You didnt look very hard to be honest. Even the crappiest steel case 5.56/.223 junk you can buy is still more expensive than a Hornady 55gr FMJBT over H335 (or your favorite powder) using mixed brass that you can reload for around $.20 per. And the reload is very capable of 1" groups, which would will never see with any cheap ammo. This is a measure of time. For me, I want all my loads to shoot 1" and I work at it until I find one.

2) Cannot speak to this. The 69's are likely a better bullet at longer ranges as Im sure you know and others have pointed out.

3) Build your rifle. Tune your ammo to it.

4) I dont think rifles are checked for power factor? Someone correct me if they are please. For fast shooting, close targets, I can see the draw of lighter shooting rounds, providing they are getting you on target with consistency.

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Exactly what has been stated before. Zero for whatever load you determine to be your "accuracy" load. Then, see where the soft, cheap rounds hits and note that the difference isn't significant out to 200+ yds.

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Depending on the game rifles may or may not have to make minor. I have strong feelings about power-factor/recoil gamed .223 and am therefore not a reliable source on the subject.

I make match-grade 55 gr for around $225/k depending on a bunch of things. I'm working off a few thousand free .223 cases, so that cost is going to be horribly skewed, but the last time I ran the numbers on brass reuse, if you get 3-4 loadings on average it's not appreciably more expensive than if you get 10.

Let's take a less than optimal scenario: I'm paying $25/lb for IMR 8208 because I love it and really can't experiment in the middle of the season. It takes 25 grains per case. I'm also paying $90/1000 for the Hornady 55s off Midway because I really don't feel like putting down $470 for the 6k case at Wideners. I'm also picking up Czech small rifle primers at Cabelas for $25/1000 because they're an attractive copper/gold color, and I'm paying $160/1000 for prepped/trimmed brass. This comes out to $234/1000 if I'm able to get 5 loadings out of a case. Not bad.

Okay, now what's optimal for me? Free brass from working majors, a keg of H335 for $165 (the last time I got one locally iirc), and a case of bullets from Wideners. That drops it down to $177/1000. The time I'd spend scratching my ass and watching The Justice League now has a purpose.

I load for accuracy generally -- Make some loads from mid to max and shoot groups until I'm happy, or at least until I can't be bothered to tilt at windmills. This generally occurs somewhere near max, but not necessarily right at. 55s or 75s, the bonus the 75 gets me is (1) indicating the target and (2) windage. Drop is actually worse, so I find for 300-400y targets there's value in less angry holdovers, especially shooting 1x over a BDC like the MTAC (the MTAC BDC is also exact if I get 3100-ish FPS out of my 55s, math happens if I use 75s). I also had a buddy ditch some 75s because he's getting out of loading .223 for some reason, which kind of trumped (1) and (2) above. Six of one, half dozen of the other, pick something and shoot more.

As for tuning the rifle, mine's more overgassed than a Taco Tico's restroom, so I can't help you there.

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The load I decided to work with is: 55gr Hornady FMJBT, LC brass, Win 748 powder, CCI 400 primers. I believe I'm gonna go from the minimum load to the max and see what my rifle likes. The club I will be attending does have shots out to 500yds so either I will need to find a load with enough ass and accuracy to make those shots or have 2 loads. I believe for now i'm just gonna gather data and decide on one load that will work for both. Since I'm kind of picking this up in the middle of the season I don't want to put to much on my plate. I will post an update for you guys after I get home and do some load testing this week.

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ballistic app shows 1282fps at 500yds with only 2750fps muzzle velocity. Problem is the wind, looking at a 2.6 mil drift on a 10 mph wind at the same distance. I'm going to try and find a mid range load in the 2700-2900fps range and run with it for now as long as my gun likes it accuracy wise. I am coming from shooting PRS matches so I've got a pretty good idea of what I need as far as ballistics go, it's the gaming parts of it that I have lots of questions about.

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I like using a faster clean burning powder for short range loads(under 100yds).

1x8 twist gets 62 PP cheapo crap bullets with benchmark.

1x12 twist gets 50- 52-53 grn with same powder.

Long range loads(100yds or more) get 60 vmax, 60 NBT, 69 mkg, 70 berger, etc....aiming for max velocity and accuracy.

ACCURACY is the most important for long range.

Nick

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Okay I got a chance to go out and test some loads. The load I decided on was: 55gr Horn FMJBT, 25.1gr Win 748, CCI 400 primer, LC brass. That load gave me 1.050" for a 5 shot group at 100yds. I know I could have shot better with more magnification but I just used the 6x razor that was on the gun. I haven't had a chance to chrono yet, Hornady manual says it should fall about 3050 so being a gasser i'm hoping for 2900-2950fps. I also put an 80% spring in my JP SCS system and adjusted the seekins gas block down to one full turn open from full closed which has me functioning at 100% so far with a very smooth and fairly soft recoil profile. Overall i'm happy with how everything is running right now. I'll be home in a week and then i'll chrono the load, test accuracy out to 500yd,and determine drop for my match in 10 days. Any and all comments are welcome on my progress guys. Thanks

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Looks like you got it locked down. The Hornady FMJBTs shoot really nice with the right powder charge as you found out. Pretty versatile bullet over all, but Id say that 500 is about the max you can shoot that bullet and have decent accuracy. Im sure others will say you could go further, but the important bit is hitting every time. A little tuning on the rifle with the right springs and gas setting and it shoots easy even at full velocity.

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I'm really hoping I can just work up this single load for now while i'm trying to get everything dialed in. Just to keep the variables to a minimum. Then later work up a second, heavier load for when i'm seeing a lot more 500yd targets.

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If you're coming from a PRS background, you won't like how the 55s group at distance. As for gaming considerations, far steel move more and ping louder when hit with 69s and 77s than with 55s.

I run 55 Hornadys at 2600 fps for 100 yards and in and 77 Noslers at 2700 for anything further. My rifle is zeroed to my 77s at 200 yards. My 55s hit half an inch low at 100.

Win 748 is good for 55s and 69s, not so with 77s. CCI 400, in my opinion, is too soft for the heavies.

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