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vinceislander

Shooting classifier on a regular basis - taboo?

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The position you finish comes before your name. Your classification comes after it. If the former is the most important then the latter isn't.

Personally, I like having a Master ranking but at the same time, overall match and overall division finishes are all I look at.

Yes, experts will beat me sometimes. But is it any more or less of a "blow to my ego" if say they were marksman? Nope, as they beat me. The number in front of their name is lower than mine, who cares about the letters after it.

I prefer to be ranked with the people who can swim at the deep end, not with the people who need to touch the bottom of the pool to feel safe.

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When I check local scores I don't pay much attention to the unclassified guy that is too scared to shoot a classifier

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If you want to shoot anything above a Tier 1 club level match - and that run by a tolerant MD - you have to be classified.

If you are more interested in being the big fish in a small pond and they are letting you get away with it, go ahead, but you will not be welcome at a major match.

Well our local club dropped IDPA affiliation--so what's my motivation again? The neighboring club (IDPA affiliated) allows us to shoot matches without being an IDPA member (however, I do pay to be a member of their club in order to support the club and their range). The next closest clubs are USPSA only and 3-Gun.

I'd rather be a "big fish" in a little pond before swimming into the larger lake. If your "big fish" comment was pejorative you should clarify (it is difficult to intuit intended meaning over the Web). I'm not sure why you remarked "if they let you get away with it." Exactly what am I getting away with? I'm not trying to get away with anything--I'm just trying to improve and become a better shooter and I weigh my progress using actual match results (and comparisons to other good shooters).

"You will no be welcome at a major match"--that hurt my feelings. . . . Okay, I'm over it now.

In terms of "If you read the IDPA rulebook, you'll see that it's every IDPA member's responsibility to be classified." I'd rather re-read War and Peace. It appears that I am in some kind of "Twilight Zone" given my club/range choices.

I've been a "rebel" (or considered one by teachers all the way through school) because I always questioned things. Pat answers and citing higher authority never sat well with me. I attribute my success in life to that one trait. So, the answer to my needing a convincing reason to shoot the IDPA classifier appears to be "you will not be welcome at major matches and it is my responsibility to be classified (because IDPA HQ ordered it)." Solution--if I ever want to shoot a major match I sign up for a classifier because classifications trump actual match shooting ability apparently. I will compromise on reading the rulebook. If you promise that IDPA HQ will not change it for three years I'll read it (doesn't look like I'll be reading it does it?). I know why IDPA HQ ordered "thou shalt read the rulebook and get classified"--you have to pay your yearly dues to classify (requirement). I should conform and pay IDPA and classify. If we do not pay IDPA we would not be able to shoot in competitions. Free bottle of beer to the first respondent that replies "if you don't like it then don't shoot IDPA."

Edited by Steppenwolf

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I get it. You're a "rebel". You want to shoot in a competitive sport, but don't want to even attempt to understand the rules of that sport. Your not understanding basic things like membership and Classifications shows this.

If I began shooting USPSA, I would read their rulebook. Which is quite a bit bigger than IDPA's.

People don't join a baseball league and say "I'm a rebel, so I'll run around the bases clockwise".

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Tarkeg:

I understand the IDPA rules (I've shot nine IDPA matches without any procedurals and my first procedural was a "cover call" in my first match).

You assertion (unsubstantiated and unsupported opinion) that I do not understand "basic things like membership and Classifications" is just that--an assertion. You are cherry-picking comments from my reply and making a claim that you cannot prove. I played baseball (was a starter in HS and on the Army team). Actually--I learned baseball as a young lad by just getting out and doing it. Never did read any rules. If I read the rules I would have probably been a second-stringer watching from the dugout. I ran around the bases correctly because I watched older kids playing (and I'm a quick learner).

If our discussion was a logic "match"--you have scored a procedural (for an assertion based on out-of-context comment culling) and are down about 20 points. So riddle me this "if the IDPA rules are so value-worthy of reading and will teach you everything you need to know before shooting the sport, why are cover calls so arbitrary?" I listened to the MD at my first IDPA match (there was a 45 minute safety and match briefing). I know what "slicing the pie" is, I know what a cover garment is, I know how to score, I know what a no-shoot is, I know what hard cover is, I know the range commands, I know what a procedural is, I know what the 180 is, I know what a tactical reload and reload with retention are, etc. etc. I learned all that from the briefing and attending matches.

Stage Two awaits.

Edited by Steppenwolf

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The position you finish comes before your name. Your classification comes after it. If the former is the most important then the latter isn't.

Personally, I like having a Master ranking but at the same time, overall match and overall division finishes are all I look at.

Yes, experts will beat me sometimes. But is it any more or less of a "blow to my ego" if say they were marksman? Nope, as they beat me. The number in front of their name is lower than mine, who cares about the letters after it.

I prefer to be ranked with the people who can swim at the deep end, not with the people who need to touch the bottom of the pool to feel safe.

^Yes.

The more matches I have under my belt, the less my classification is important to me. I value my scores against fellow(and better) shooters more so. If ever someone suggests I'm sandbagging as a SS then I'm doing something right and ready to rank up. I don't mind being the little fish again.

...still having fun...

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If you want to shoot anything above a Tier 1 club level match - and that run by a tolerant MD - you have to be classified.

If you are more interested in being the big fish in a small pond and they are letting you get away with it, go ahead, but you will not be welcome at a major match.

Well our local club dropped IDPA affiliation--so what's my motivation again? The neighboring club (IDPA affiliated) allows us to shoot matches without being an IDPA member (however, I do pay to be a member of their club in order to support the club and their range). The next closest clubs are USPSA only and 3-Gun.

I'd rather be a "big fish" in a little pond before swimming into the larger lake. If your "big fish" comment was pejorative you should clarify (it is difficult to intuit intended meaning over the Web). I'm not sure why you remarked "if they let you get away with it." Exactly what am I getting away with? I'm not trying to get away with anything--I'm just trying to improve and become a better shooter and I weigh my progress using actual match results (and comparisons to other good shooters).

"You will no be welcome at a major match"--that hurt my feelings. . . . Okay, I'm over it now.

In terms of "If you read the IDPA rulebook, you'll see that it's every IDPA member's responsibility to be classified." I'd rather re-read War and Peace. It appears that I am in some kind of "Twilight Zone" given my club/range choices.

I've been a "rebel" (or considered one by teachers all the way through school) because I always questioned things. Pat answers and citing higher authority never sat well with me. I attribute my success in life to that one trait. So, the answer to my needing a convincing reason to shoot the IDPA classifier appears to be "you will not be welcome at major matches and it is my responsibility to be classified (because IDPA HQ ordered it)." Solution--if I ever want to shoot a major match I sign up for a classifier because classifications trump actual match shooting ability apparently. I will compromise on reading the rulebook. If you promise that IDPA HQ will not change it for three years I'll read it (doesn't look like I'll be reading it does it?). I know why IDPA HQ ordered "thou shalt read the rulebook and get classified"--you have to pay your yearly dues to classify (requirement). I should conform and pay IDPA and classify. If we do not pay IDPA we would not be able to shoot in competitions. Free bottle of beer to the first respondent that replies "if you don't like it then don't shoot IDPA."

I don't even shoot IDPA and I know the answer. All shooters must be IDPA members after their first freebie match, right (3.19.4)? It is a requirement that all IDPA members hold a current classification (3.19.5) and shoot the classifier at least 1 time per year, unless they are an M or DM (9.2.1). If you read the rule book you would know that.

So while the club you shoot at allows non members to shoot, they aren't actually enforcing the rules, and I wonder what IDPA HQ would say about their affiliated status if they continued that practice.

The other reason to be classified, in my mind, is to compare how you stack up against the rest of the fish in the worldwide pond. The classifiers in both USPSA and IDPA test the basic skills of marksmanship. If you can prove that you can preform those skills at a pre determined level, then you can see how well you are actually shooting.

There are a lot more rules to a sport than just the shooting rules. That's why you should maybe try reading the rulebook, you might learn something.

Also, being a rebel simply for the sake of being a rebel and being rude to others that have way more experience than you (9 matches ever? That is a single month for a lot of people on this forum), probably not a good way to be.

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Wow. 9 whole matches, and a couple safety briefs. From a club that doesn't follow the rules either. You obviously know everything.

Out.

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Shoot it all you want. It's better than most matches to me.

I think most people can make Master in IDPA. Then you do the work if you want to be really good.

I made Master when I was still C class in USPSA.

Classes are for getting a trophy. Being the the best you can be is a different thing.

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"Wow. 9 whole matches, and a couple safety briefs. From a club that doesn't follow the rules either. You obviously know everything. Out"

Tarkeg:

Okay, on Stage Two of the logic match you bolo. Your persuasive skills need some brush up work. I did not say that I know everything, did I? Answer this question specifically--with a yes or a no (just helping you out here). Because I ask a few questions about justifying the classifier you reply with the standard appeal to authority argument. Now you are trying the intimidation tactic (with the old illogical "you obviously know everything" argument--which, of course, implies that you think that you know everything). I did not say that I know everything now did I? You see--when you question things you get a dog pile of opposition. "Fall in line son, or else."

Gooldylocks:

I am not being rude (if you perceive my replies as rude that is okay--but why are you doing so? Is it because you hope that will cause me to apologize and "fall in line" because of your perception)? I asked for a convincing reason to shoot the IDPA classifier and people reply with "you won't be allowed at a major match" and "read the rules--you have to be classified," "if they let you get away with it," and "If you want to be a big fish in a little pond." You guys should be paid ambassadors for IDPA.

Also, I wrote that I've shot ten IDPA matches. I noted that my local club dropped local IDPA affiliation. I can only shoot IDPA matches at a neighboring club. I've shot a lot more than ten matches (if you include the local non-IDPA matches, USPSA matches, GSSF matches, SASS matches, steel matches, 3-Gun matches, and shot various competitive shooting sports years ago and in the army). I am also lucky enough to get to shoot training matches and simulation situations at an indoor police training range because I help them out from time to time. That is much more than a single month's worth of matches (you and Tarkeg made a major assumptive leap about the level of my experience ("9 matches ever?")). Let's correct your ending assumption for the record shall we? Were you insinuating that because I'm some newbie that my questions or point of view are not valid? I'm not a newbie (but you will never admit your mistake will you? If you think that is rude then don't make such assumptions). So, the IDPA club that I shoot at occasionally (that I pay to be a member of, that I help setup at, help teardown at, help tape after scoring, and help with their fundraiser) should kick me out because I don't want to shoot the IDPA classifier?

The answer to my question (convincing reason to shoot the classifier) boils down to one simple thing. It is about money. IDPA is a private organization that requires money to operate. They require members to classify to justify joining IPDA. I would join IDPA (for the sake of the neighboring club), but I don't care to spend all day shooting the classifier. But, "it's in the rules--you have to shoot the classifier."

Would you like to contact IDPA HQ and get me ostracized from the affiliated club? I can still pay local club dues, show up and help setup and teardown, help score, and just watch instead of shoot. By the way, if the "gotta be a member" rule was enforced that club would close down and IDPA would shoot itself in the foot.

Edited by Steppenwolf

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To the person who mentioned head shot misses, when I have shot the classifier for fun or practice if I drop ANY points on stage 1 I stop, tape, reload, clear my head and start over a the first string. Any points dropped on stage 1 are unacceptable for myself.

Your post stuck in my head. During last week's classifier, my only miss was on stage 2 and SSP Expert eluded me by 0.11 seconds. This after not picking up a pistol for two weeks. Most notable change in my practice regiment was to lock my wrists resulting in faster and more accurate follow-up shots.

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I don't think you should more than one classifier a year per division if you shoot multiple divisions. Ideally you will get your bumps with major match wins. Just shooting the classifier over and over trying to get the classification you want or think you deserve is wrong. I understand that for some divisions that it is hard to get a match bump, so either dump the        revolver or hope that the  CCP division grows. I will say that I feel the classifier needs to be looked at and possibly reworked. I have run into several shooters that are classified higher than they probably should have. 

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Either version of the IDPA classifier match is a good test of basic skills.

 

I like to shoot USPSA Special Classifier matches for the same reason. Shoot a bunch of classifiers and keep good notes and it will help you determine what skills you need more practice on.

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