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Rudukai13

Early generation Open guns?

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First let me say I searched and couldn't find a thread similar to this, although it's entirely possible I missed it so if this has already been covered I apologize!

Now then, I'm curious to see pictures and any accompanying technical details anyone might have of the early generations of Open Division guns - I'm talking about guns from the 80s and early 90s, mid-90s at the latest. As much interesting and marvelous engineering there is that goes in to the current generation of comp and optic race guns, I'm very curious to see the evolution of the division and the equipment used for it.

Post 'em if you got 'em!

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I don't believe Open became a Division until very late 1990 or later. Until optic sights showed their ability, there was no Open, and the 1990 World Shoot was when optics proved their worth.

That is not to say there were no comped guns earlier, including single stack comped guns. These were preceded by the bowling pin guns that had a weight on the barrel, but no ports.

Guy

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I think we called them "unlimited guns" and I had a state of the art "unlimited gun" for the day. I don't think the .38 super was being used much when I had this gun built, I know it wasn't at the local level. Mine was a single stack .45 with a single port full profile comp, Bomar sights, beavertail, S&A magwell and some weighted grips, forgot the name of the grips but basically steel plates under some very thin wood grips. John Dixon built it for me in about 1984. gun shot pretty soft and was very accurate. when everybody started going to hi caps I entered the equipment race with a Para .45 but resisted the urge to go to the optic sighted pistol, still haven't and have no plans to do so. I like shooting single stack division followed closely by limited then production division.

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In the beginning they were just called, guns. There was only one division so there was no need for a special name. When "Limited" division was created then the open style guns were named "Unlimited". So we had Limited and Unlimited.

Before limited division was created you could build any type of pistol you wanted and compete against everyone else. About the only restrictions were it had to be safe and serviceable, at least 9mm bore diameter (9x19 or larger), and the portion of the magazine that contained the spring/follower/ammo couldn't extended below the grip.

The weighted grips you are talking about were made by a guy from the SWPL named Jack Breskovich (not sure on the spelling). They were real popular on the major 9's and 38 Supers back when the power factor was 185, they would protect your hands if you blew a case.

Edited by Bob Hostetter

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I think we called them "unlimited guns" and I had a state of the art "unlimited gun" for the day. I don't think the .38 super was being used much when I had this gun built, I know it wasn't at the local level. Mine was a single stack .45 with a single port full profile comp, Bomar sights, beavertail, S&A magwell and some weighted grips, forgot the name of the grips but basically steel plates under some very thin wood grips. John Dixon built it for me in about 1984. gun shot pretty soft and was very accurate. when everybody started going to hi caps I entered the equipment race with a Para .45 but resisted the urge to go to the optic sighted pistol, still haven't and have no plans to do so. I like shooting single stack division followed closely by limited then production division.

I'm pretty sure Chip McCormick was shooting a .38 around that time, I think I have one of his old frames that looks like Bob Greider did work on. it had a hooked trigger guard, a big 3/8" tungsten guide rod that went out past the comp.

'84 or '85 Rob & Brian & some others started shooting the .38's

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Robbie was probably the 1st to start using the 38 Super but there were other people like the Hamiltons who were shooting major 9x19 using very heavy bullets, mostly around 160grs. This was before they made 9x19 major illegal, before they made it legal again.

The move to higher cap magazines started in the very late 80's mostly with the EAA Witnesses and the Dot became the thing in 90 after Barnhart won the Nationals with one and Konieg won the Worlds' with one.

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I had one of the first 17Ls in the country and shot it major until 9mm was outlawed, then got a CMC frame and had a real open gun built in .38 Super with a Tasco tube sight.

(CMC was the sales agent for STI originally)

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Old copies of Front Sight magazine are available on the USPSA website and will give you some visuals and stories on the evolution of guns, classes, and the rules.

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Robbie was probably the 1st to start using the 38 Super but there were other people like the Hamiltons who were shooting major 9x19 using very heavy bullets, mostly around 160grs. This was before they made 9x19 major illegal, before they made it legal again.

The move to higher cap magazines started in the very late 80's mostly with the EAA Witnesses and the Dot became the thing in 90 after Barnhart won the Nationals with one and Konieg won the Worlds' with one.

Never knew that major 9x19 was made illegal, I thought a minimum OAL was mandated (1.260?) that necessitated using 160gr bullets in order to make that minimum OAL. Pretty sure that's why so few shot it.

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Some neat stuff pops up on gun broker now and then. There a tripp 45 with comp a bit ago. Idk if it sold.

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EAA Witness Circa 1993 by Kevin Toothman

9x21

BTW this one is for sale to the right collector. Virgin, never fired..

Set up with WCPI carbon/aluminum PDP3 mount. Modern Cmore should fit nicely..

post-20026-0-24346700-1435798757_thumb.j

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First guns I remember seeing in IPSC with red dots were revolvers.

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Thanks for the input and pictures everyone!

Changing my original timeframe a bit, can we get more info/pictures on some of the first competition guns that incorporated red dots/scopes? I'd like to see the evolution of how the Open division got to the point where it's at now.

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Here's my 45 i use to shoot for pins. It's been updated a little. I actually shot this last year at the PSA.

RaceReady_zpsd58a8b34.jpg

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I found a pic of our old Chip McCormick 2011 with Custom compensator with Early CMore Slide Ride. Circa 1992 By Don Kehoe of GRSC6ia5v5.jpg

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