Easier? Production vs Single Stack

[gng4life]

You'll "score well" in either division since you are the only one. You shoot 100%.

+1

[zhunter]

Easier? That's pretty subjective, but to be honest as others have said, it really depends on the stage setup.

Shooting an El Prez classifier? SS Major is easier as it has a magwell and it only requires 6 shots per magazine.

[motosapiens]

Easier? That's pretty subjective, but to be honest as others have said, it really depends on the stage setup.

Shooting an El Prez classifier? SS Major is easier as it has a magwell and it only requires 6 shots per magazine.

but the HHF is generally higher for SS.

[zhunter]

Easier? That's pretty subjective, but to be honest as others have said, it really depends on the stage setup.

Shooting an El Prez classifier? SS Major is easier as it has a magwell and it only requires 6 shots per magazine.

but the HHF is generally higher for SS.

I was referring to El Pres as a stage in a match, not as a classifier.

[Corey]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

I think this whole idea ultimately comes down to what YOU shoot the best. I can score a lot better with a 1911 than a glock because I shot the 1911/2011 all the time and am much more comfortable with it.

[zhunter]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

[motosapiens]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

magwell on a 1911 really seems to only about equalize the reloads. I wouldn't call it an advantage for my reload skill.

[jkrispies]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

magwell on a 1911 really seems to only about equalize the reloads. I wouldn't call it an advantage for my reload skill.

I would agree that (at my skill level, which isn't saying much) my reloads between my magwell'd 1911 and stock Glock are close enough to the same... But without the magwell the 1911 would be at a disadvantage, so I specified a 1911 with a magwell to make that aspect at least equal between the two guns. To be honest, though, I do think there's less chance of a mag feed lip catching on a 1911 magwell than the thin edge of a Glock grip. YMMV.

[zhunter]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

magwell on a 1911 really seems to only about equalize the reloads. I wouldn't call it an advantage for my reload skill.

I shot SS exclusively for a few years with a big SV magwell, trust me it's easier to load a SS w/magwell than a CZ Shadow

[motosapiens]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

magwell on a 1911 really seems to only about equalize the reloads. I wouldn't call it an advantage for my reload skill.

I shot SS exclusively for a few years with a big SV magwell, trust me it's easier to load a SS w/magwell than a CZ Shadow

I don't have to trust you. I train with both setups. Perhaps I just practice more.

with about the same amount of practice (lots) with both setups, my reload times are identical. I'd be curious how other folks who have practiced on both set ups feel, especially the M and GM folks.

Edited June 2, 2015 by motosapiens

[RJH]

For me personally it is SS. Because everything. I shot production for a year or so and actually practiced, got tired of it, switched to SS and within 2 matches started winning the limited round count divisions. I tried SS minor and thought I liked it, but my shooting style lends itself to shooting major (as in a Charlie is good enough most of the time). I also went up in classification pretty quickly. But to each his own.

I do disagree about Open being easier though, its different. We have a good open shooter here and I have beat him when we were both shooting SS, but if he was shooting open or limited and I was too, I don't think I would have a chance. Its a different game with those guns.

[2MoreChains]

I voted equal. I shoot Prod with a SP-01 Shadow Custom and my 1911's in SS and am the same class in both. Both are not stock and both have good triggers and same kind of sights. I don't have any numbers to prove or disprove but I feel like when I shoot Prod or SS my overall placement at local matches is about the same, especially when the usual suspects of good shooters are there.

But I do agree it depends on the stages since I shoot major in SS. Maybe if I shot SS minor I would feel differently. With regard to reloading, thanks to the tapered mags and big opening I can load the CZ pretty easily even though it lacks a magwell whereas the 1911s with a bigass Techwell XT is almost a neccesity.

[Southpaw]

I shoot a Glock in Production and Single Stack minor. I shoot Glocks a lot more than 1911s, but with a lot less practice with the 1911 I still shoot them about the same. If I practiced more with the 1911 I think I'd shoot it a lot better than the Glocks. And when I say better I mean comparing hit factors on the same classifiers between the 2 guns or something like that, not how I place in matches which depends on who shows up that day. My reloads are faster with a 1911 with a magwell, and I only use a fairly small S&A magwell. Not a huge difference, but definitely faster with the 1911.

That makes sense if you are talking about crappy plastic guns, but I don't see how anyone could claim a 1911 has significant advantages over a stock ii or cz shadow.

Poll needs a separate option for Unicorn Production guns

[ES13Raven]

That makes sense if you are talking about crappy plastic guns, but I don't see how anyone could claim a 1911 has significant advantages over a stock ii or cz shadow.

Poll needs a separate option for Unicorn Production guns

That's why I wanted people to vote based on all Production guns vs all SS guns, not best case scenario (AccuShadow vs stock RIA, or Hi-Point vs $3000 SS Custom etc.)

Edited June 3, 2015 by ES13Raven

[motosapiens]

That makes sense if you are talking about crappy plastic guns, but I don't see how anyone could claim a 1911 has significant advantages over a stock ii or cz shadow.

Poll needs a separate option for Unicorn Production guns

That's why I wanted people to vote based on all Production guns vs all SS guns, not best case scenario (AccuShadow vs stock RIA, or Hi-Point vs $3000 SS Custom etc.)

Well honestly, i don't think a production gun has to be expensive to not suck. my mildly tuned cz 75b's cost about the same as a mildly tuned glock and are not giving up anything significant in trigger quality to the pricier guns. You could go one better and spend $600 on an 85 Combat, $100 on hammer and springs and be even cheaper than my setup and just as good or better.

So I'm comparing under $1000 production guns against 1911's right around $1200 or so (sti trojan). Fit and finish is nicer on the 1911 but I detect no advantage in shooting. I suspect that $2500 custom 1911 vs matt mink accushadow would yield similar results. I also suspect that crappy plastic glock against $400 RIA 1911 would yield similar results.

[2MoreChains]

If I compare what I have:

CZ-75 SP-01 Shadow Custom to my Barton Custom 1911 in .40, I'd say I shoot them about the same. About equal in cost, and about equal in performance based on the OP's metrics.

-but-

Glock 34 compared to any of my 1911's setup with a magwell for SS Div then yes, clear advantage with the 1911s, mostly due to weight and trigger.

[seanc]

Of course this also means that revolver is the hardest division. They have the hardest and most frequent reloads. The heaviest triggers, and minor scoring.

Its not that its hard, its just different.

Honestly the part that's "hard" about revolver is, most arrays at a club level are 8 shots. This has the practical effect of making the stage shots limited because any pickup on a missed steel for example = a standing reload.

[tbarker13]

Prod would only require 6 shots per magazine too, no? its still 3 targets, with 2 shots on each one.

Correct, but you have major scoring and a magwell! Huge difference on the example I gave above.

magwell on a 1911 really seems to only about equalize the reloads. I wouldn't call it an advantage for my reload skill.

I shot SS exclusively for a few years with a big SV magwell, trust me it's easier to load a SS w/magwell than a CZ Shadow

I don't have to trust you. I train with both setups. Perhaps I just practice more.

with about the same amount of practice (lots) with both setups, my reload times are identical. I'd be curious how other folks who have practiced on both set ups feel, especially the M and GM folks.

I was using a CZ setup before making the switch (for 2 weeks) to single stack nationals.

It was the first time I got my SS guns out, since the previous single stack nationals.

My reloads suffered not one bit. That surprised me, considering how much I dry fire and practicing with my production set up.

So, for me at least, I have to give the edge to Single Stack when it comes to reloads - at least on guns equipped with an Ice Magwell or similar.

[ES13Raven]

Its not that its hard, its just different.

Honestly the part that's "hard" about revolver is, most arrays at a club level are 8 shots. This has the practical effect of making the stage shots limited because any pickup on a missed steel for example = a standing reload.

Not hard meaning difficult. Hard meaning least easiest to get a higher hit factor.

[ES13Raven]

Here is some evidence to my theory of divisions (based on equipment) going from most difficult to least: Rev, Pro, SS, Lim10, Lim, Open.

My Classifier yesterday - I had a 5.22 Hit Factor.

Here is what that equates to for each Division:

Rev: 66.7%

Pro: 62.9%

SS: 54.2%

Lim10: 51.6%

Lim: 51.6%

Open: 47.9%

[bthoefer]

Another way to look at it is production is were most beginners start. The last club match I shot had 31 production shooters and almost half were unclassified. And of the ones classified most were C and D. There weren't many unclassified shooters in the other divisions. So you could argue that production would be the easiest division to do well in.

I don't know that any one division is really harder. They all have different challenges to over come. Your still shooting against others with similar gear.

Around here new shooters almost always start in limited. They shoot whatever gun and gear they have with full mags and learn their way around USPSA.

[balmo]

• Easier Scoring: I give the edge to SS

• Easier Trigger: I give the edge to SS

Easier Reloads: I give the edge to SS

Easier Accuracy: I give the edge to SS

Easier Recoil: I give the Edge to Prod

Allowed Modifications: I give the edge to SS

Overall: I give the edge to Prod. Wait, what?!

Just a humble opinion for the mediocre C class shooter. For me, pickups is a way of life (lolz). Switching from Production to Single Stack this year, I absolutely miss those two extra rounds.

[ES13Raven]

I absolutely miss those two extra rounds.

You have SS Minor as an option.

[balmo]

I absolutely miss those two extra rounds.

You have SS Minor as an option.

Doh! I always forget there is life after 45 in the 1911 world.

[Gooldylocks]

I don't shoot either of these divisions, nor do I practice with either much so my vote is not worth anything really. But as an outside observer this is what I think.

Scoring, I think that depends on whether its a local match or a big match. Seems like at the locals around here shooting minor would most of the time be the way to go for the extra rounds, but on classifiers and stuff definitely advantage SS major. Overall, probably no big difference either way, just depends on what kind of shooter you are and fits your style.

I shot a tuned up Glock trigger in limited for awhile, and it was okay. But comparing that to a nice SA trigger, no comparison (at least in my hands). So for plastic trigger vs SS: 1911 every time. Of my friends' CZ's/Tanfo's vs 1911: no difference.

Doing reloads with my stock glock and its giant gaping hole of a magwell is more difficult (easier to catch the edge of the grip with the magazine) than my dad's 1911, even though I hardly ever touch his 1911 (and it just has the Archangel grip magwell panels on it, not a giant SV or techwell).

Reloads: Advantage SS

Easier accuracy? I don't think that there is really anything inherently more accurate about either platform in most people's hands for accuracy except for the trigger, which as previously stated is a wash between the fancy metal production guns and SS. So.. no difference?

Easier recoil goes to production overall, but with SS minor then no difference. Minor ammo doesn't have recoil anyway.

Modifications SS

Overall SS, by a hair? Maybe the same?

I think SS might only be easier because of the options it affords the shooter. You could walk the stages beforehand, figure out if major or minor seems better, then shoot the appropriate PF. Overall they are so close, but maybe that is the one difference that sets SS apart. But again, I don't actually shoot either division. So maybe my opinion is meaningless.