brisix Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 USPSA list of approved Production guns has CZ97B's weight as 40.2oz. That's not confirmation, we would need someone to weigh the gun to make sure but I can't imagine them being 3oz off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatsEverything Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 CZ-USA lists the 97B at 2.54 lbs (40.64 oz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) I am willing to bet the mag weighs more than 3 ounces. Hmm CZUB lists the SP01 Shadow at 1180 grams = 41.6 ounces. That is close to what mine weighs with a mag. Something must be off on the product listing. I don't see how the small frame Shadow Weighs more than the large frame 97. If the listed weight is correct, then that means the 97 with all factory parts should be good to go for IDPA as long as it meets the new 43 ounce weight requirement that has been in effect since March. Edited June 10, 2015 by himurax13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatsEverything Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 9mm Shadow has a smaller hole and therefore more metal in the slide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) 97BD w mag weighs in at 41.8 ounces Edited June 10, 2015 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaseMarshall Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Woah let's back up here. Chopping the dustcover might be considered an external modification. Since they don't like you to change the sight dovetails, they would probably frown on this as well. If you chopped the dust cover you wouldn't have to worry about any of the SSP rules. You could add a magwell and convert it to SAO and even do the CGW bushing modification and be good to go in CDP or ESP. Not sure why anyone would want to run a 97 in ESP over CDP. I think a 45 fits best in CDP. I don't know if cutting back the dust cover is possible, I've never handled a CZ-97B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 97 with a shorten dustcover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 97 with a shorten dustcover Wow, the gun suddenly looks a little 1911-ish with a bit of metal removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Well chopping the dustcover would probably be considered an external modification. The full length dustcover should be fine for SSP since Stuart says it approximately weighs 42 ounces so there is wiggle room for grips and basepads. So then it will be legal for ESP and CDP as long as only factory parts are used on the outside. The advantages of ESP over CDP is twofold. In ESP you only need to make 125 PF vs 165 PF and you have ten instead of eight rounds. Edited June 10, 2015 by himurax13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Are there any mag extension available for CZ 97? It would be nice to be able to not have to use a barney mag for Limited 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Funny you should ask that. For those of you who don't know, the Tanfoglio EAA Witness K45 Mecgar mags are compatible with the CZ97. The Henning IPSC basepads (not the 140mm ones) should fit in the IDPA box and they will give you one extra round capacity with the stock springs and followers. With the Grams springs and followers, you might be able to get another round in there. However I do not reccomend this for those folks who live in states with 10 round magazine capacities. Edited June 10, 2015 by himurax13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I've had mag issues with mine, with every mag I've tried except the one it came with. Always the same thing - if I load it to capacity (10 rounds), the slide hangs up (doesn't fully strip/chamber the round and go into battery) on the first round. Subsequent rounds go no problem. I've used mags billed as both CZ-97 and Witness, and replaced the springs as well. Still does the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaseMarshall Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Well chopping the dustcover would probably be considered an external modification. The full length dustcover should be fine for SSP since Stuart says it approximately weighs 42 ounces so there is wiggle room for grips and basepads. So then it will be legal for ESP and CDP as long as only factory parts are used on the outside. The advantages of ESP over CDP is twofold. In ESP you only need to make 125 PF vs 165 PF and you have ten instead of eight rounds. I know the IDPA equipmnet rules. Forget about SSP and the SSP into ESP & CDP rules. If that is what you want to shoot, a shadow or any of the 9mm guns is a much better option. IF you cut the dustcover you dont have to worry about any of the SSP rules. You could build the gun specifically for CDP with an after market barrel bushing, a magwell and SAO trigger with overtravel screw and whatever else you wanted. It would also make a good Lim-10 gun. Edited June 10, 2015 by ChaseMarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatsEverything Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 IF you cut the dustcover you dont have to worry about any of the SSP rules. You could build the gun specifically for CDP with an after market barrel bushing, a magwell and SAO trigger with overtravel screw and whatever else you wanted. It would also make a good Lim-10 gun. As I read it, the stock configuration would legal at all levels of USPSA, but only be legal in IDPA SSP and not ESP or CDP, on account of the dust cover exceeding 3.25". Is that correct? If I get CGW E Package, it would drop out of legality for IDPA SSP due to an externally visible modification (i.e.: Reach Reduction Kit changes trigger position). Would it also drop it out of USPSA Production? The rules don't specifically allow a trigger position change, so it's therefore prohibited, isn't it? (Not that I'd want to shoot 45 in Production...) Sounds like the only reasonable divisions for the 97B would be Open, Limited-10 and CDP (if the dust cover is cut down)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaseMarshall Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) From IDPA Rule book: 8.1.1.2. Double action, double action only and striker fired semi-automatic firearms compete in Stock Service Pistol Division (SSP). Any firearm that can be used in SSP can be used in Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP) or Custom Defensive Pistol Division (CDP), depending upon the caliber. Single action semi-automatic firearms compete in ESP or CDP, depending upon caliber. Revolvers are classified by loading method and ammunition power. And: 8.2.2.1.7. All firearms legal in SSP are legal for use in ESP. This provision may be used for firearms that violate an ESP rule (for example, a firearm with a steel dust cover or rail over 3.25”) to still be used in ESP, provided the firearm meets all SSP requirements. And: 8.2.3.1.7. All .45 ACP firearms legal in SSP are legal for use in CDP. This provision may be used for firearms that violate a CDP rule (for example, a firearm with a steel dust cover or rail over 3.25”) to still be used in CDP, provided the firearm meets all SSP requirements. Edited June 10, 2015 by ChaseMarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaseMarshall Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) 97 with a shorten dustcover That is super-cool. Is the dustcover under the 3.25" limit? I would imagine that would also give you a little (not much) weight reduction to work with as well. It would be sweet if you gave it some Hi-Power style cuts right were the frame ended to make it look more like a 75. (Hi-Power cuts are allowed in CDP) Edited June 10, 2015 by ChaseMarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Well chopping the dustcover would probably be considered an external modification. The full length dustcover should be fine for SSP since Stuart says it approximately weighs 42 ounces so there is wiggle room for grips and basepads. So then it will be legal for ESP and CDP as long as only factory parts are used on the outside. The advantages of ESP over CDP is twofold. In ESP you only need to make 125 PF vs 165 PF and you have ten instead of eight rounds. I know the IDPA equipmnet rules. Forget about SSP and the SSP into ESP & CDP rules. If that is what you want to shoot, a shadow or any of the 9mm guns is a much better option. IF you cut the dustcover you dont have to worry about any of the SSP rules. You could build the gun specifically for CDP with an after market barrel bushing, a magwell and SAO trigger with overtravel screw and whatever else you wanted. It would also make a good Lim-10 gun. I would like to see that. I would just doublecheck to see if cutting the dustcover is kosher. If it is, then your wallet is the limit. I've had mag issues with mine, with every mag I've tried except the one it came with. Always the same thing - if I load it to capacity (10 rounds), the slide hangs up (doesn't fully strip/chamber the round and go into battery) on the first round. Subsequent rounds go no problem. I've used mags billed as both CZ-97 and Witness, and replaced the springs as well. Still does the same thing. I had this issue as well. I found that keeping the mags fully loaded for a week or more helped the springs set. I have not had a problem since. Edited June 10, 2015 by himurax13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EatsEverything Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 From IDPA Rule book: 8.1.1.2. 8.2.2.1.7. 8.2.3.1.7. In the ESP section, trigger position is mentioned explicitly as a permitted modification: 8.2.2.2.11 Aftermarket triggers and trigger work that result in the trigger being forward or rearward from the stock trigger position. However, it isn't mentioned in the SSP section, so that seems to imply it's not allowed. (Permitted) 8.2.1.3.3 Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements. Parts in this list must come factory installed on standard production firearms. Special parts that are available installed only from a factory custom shop are not eligible in SSP. (Excluded) 8.2.1.4.1 Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section. My interpretation, then, is that a stock 97B would be fine for SSP, ESP and CDP, but a 97B with an alteration that deviates from the stock position of the trigger (e.g.: CGW Reach Reduction Kit) is illegal for SSP and therefore doesn't qualify for the rules quoted above. Am I reading this wrong? I thought a modification that's not explicitly allowed is prohibited by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My interpretation, then, is that a stock 97B would be fine for SSP, ESP and CDP, but a 97B with an alteration that deviates from the stock position of the trigger (e.g.: CGW Reach Reduction Kit) is illegal for SSP and therefore doesn't qualify for the rules quoted above. Am I reading this wrong? I thought a modification that's not explicitly allowed is prohibited by default. That is how I have interpreted the reach reduction kit, especially for the CZ75. For competition purposes I don't see a place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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