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Reshoot?


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5.4.3 If a Range Official notices that a competitor has lost or displaced their eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or has commenced a course of fire without either one, the Range Official must immediately stop the competitor who will be required to reshoot the course of fire after the protective devices have been restored.

5.4.4 A competitor who inadvertently loses eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or commences a course of fire without either one, is entitled to stop, point their handgun in a safe direction and indicate the problem to the Range Official, in which case the provisions of the previous rule will apply.

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5.4.3 If a Range Official notices that a competitor has lost or displaced their eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or has commenced a course of fire without either one, the Range Official must immediately stop the competitor who will be required to reshoot the course of fire after the protective devices have been restored.


5.4.4


A competitor who inadvertently loses eye or ear protection during a course of fire, or commences a course of fire without them, is entitled


to stop, point their handgun in a safe direction and indicate the problem to the Range Official, in which case the provisions of the previous rule


will apply.


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No the RO didn't. I just fixed my earmuffs and finished the classifier. But thanks to you guys I was able to show him the rule and reshoot it.

He's pretty new and was very happy to learn the rule and allow my reshoot......

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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most people have a range cart big enough to carry all the equipment needed to mount a Everest expedition so just throw the rulebook you got when you became a member in your bag ....

Good idea......... Although I was able to look through the rules on my phone in PDF format. I just didn't now where to look quickly while at the match that's why I posted here asking about what rule number it was. You guys were quick to respond and save the day! [emoji12]

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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most people have a range cart big enough to carry all the equipment needed to mount a Everest expedition so just throw the rulebook you got when you became a member in your bag ....

Good idea......... Although I was able to look through the rules on my phone in PDF format. I just didn't now where to look quickly while at the match that's why I posted here asking about what rule number it was. You guys were quick to respond and save the day! [emoji12]

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

i don't own a smartphone so this is the only thing that works for me ....

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  • 3 weeks later...

Do you double plug? That is, ear plugs with muffs? If you do and you lose your muffs, you have not lost your ear protection.

If you only use muffs and lose it, reshoot.

Sometimes I double plug. But at this particular match I only had on the muffs. I spun so fast the muff twisted and ended up between my ear and eye. Lol

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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The rules quoted call for the competitor to stop, or be stopped prior to finishing the course of fire, with subsequent reshoot.

If the course of fire has been completed, what rule would call for a reshoot?

5.4.3 If a Range Official notices that a competitor has lost or displaced their eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or has commenced a course of fire without either one, the Range Official must immediately stop the competitor who will be required to reshoot the course of fire after the protective devices have been restored.

5.4.4 A competitor who inadvertently loses eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or commences a course of fire without either one, is entitled to stop, point their handgun in a safe direction and indicate the problem to the Range Official, in which case the provisions of the previous rule will apply.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Do you double plug? That is, ear plugs with muffs? If you do and you lose your muffs, you have not lost your ear protection.

If you only use muffs and lose it, reshoot.

Is that for sure?

We use ear protection to protect our hearing and the sport and the rules support that. If we think we need two sets of protection (muffs over plugs) for adequate protection and lose one, we have lost the protection we think necessary and I think we should be entitled to stop or be stopped to prevent damage.

If I were holding the clock, I would stop the shooter (that guarantees the RS anyway, no matter how you interpret the situation). If I were the shooter, I'd still stop. I'd argue the point if the RO and RM think that my plugs were enough, but regardless my hearing is worth too much to me to risk continuing. Yeah, it's not the same as no plugs or muffs at all, but my understanding is that hearing damage is cumulative, and after 20+ years of shooting and RO'ing, I'd like to take every opportunity to protect what hearing I have left.

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Do you double plug? That is, ear plugs with muffs? If you do and you lose your muffs, you have not lost your ear protection.

If you only use muffs and lose it, reshoot.

Is that for sure?

We use ear protection to protect our hearing and the sport and the rules support that. If we think we need two sets of protection (muffs over plugs) for adequate protection and lose one, we have lost the protection we think necessary and I think we should be entitled to stop or be stopped to prevent damage.

If I were holding the clock, I would stop the shooter (that guarantees the RS anyway, no matter how you interpret the situation). If I were the shooter, I'd still stop. I'd argue the point if the RO and RM think that my plugs were enough, but regardless my hearing is worth too much to me to risk continuing. Yeah, it's not the same as no plugs or muffs at all, but my understanding is that hearing damage is cumulative, and after 20+ years of shooting and RO'ing, I'd like to take every opportunity to protect what hearing I have left.

I'm going off of what our NROI instructor told us a month ago at an RO class.

I can see your rationale though. You should email Troy.

I think that if you're the RO and you have deemed that the shooter has lost their ear protection, you're entitled to stop them. What concerns me is perhaps that shooter now thinks that that is THE definitive rule and the same thing happens at a L3 match. Perhaps they stop themself and the RO just looks at them funny and then issues "If your are finished, ULSC."

Edited by d_striker
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5.4.4 clearly states that " A competitor who inadvertently loses eye or hearing protection during a course of fire, or commences a course of fire without either one, is entitled to stop, point their handgun in a safe direction and indicate the problem to the Range Official, in which case the provisions of the previous rule will apply."

Now if you have both ear plugs and ear muffs, it would be very easy to prove that you lost ear protection if the ear muff moves (just in case the RO points out that you still have the plug in place

(5.4.1 mentions "adequate eye and ear protection", which might be a problem if soem RO thinks that adequate is just a cotton ball, but then again, I suppose that if you start with muffs and plugs and somehow the muffs get displaced, you are not continuing with the same ear protection as the one you started the COF, so a reshoot is required.)(just being a rangelawyer for a minune :D )

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If you are at a major match and want to assume that you have lost ear protection when you're double plugged and lose muffs, go right ahead.

Just prepare yourself for the possibility that the RO isn't going to stop you and will say, "If you are finished, ULSC" when you stop yourself.

Like I previously mentioned, I'm going off of what a highly respected NROI instructor told us. Unless I had an email from Troy McManus stating otherwise, I wouldn't assume that it's a reshoot and stop myself in this situation.

FWIW, if I'm RO'ing and this happens, I would deem that the shooter has NOT lost their ear protection.

Edited by d_striker
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FWIW, if I'm RO'ing and this happens, I would deem that the shooter has NOT lost their ear protection.

Why? If I shoot every stage of the match double plugged for the safety of my hearing and my future, and on the last stage my muffs fall off legitimately, who are u to say that I am now adequately protected. It's my hearing, not yours.

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FWIW, if I'm RO'ing and this happens, I would deem that the shooter has NOT lost their ear protection.

Why? If I shoot every stage of the match double plugged for the safety of my hearing and my future, and on the last stage my muffs fall off legitimately, who are u to say that I am now adequately protected. It's my hearing, not yours.

Who am I? I'm nobody.

I'm just the RO that has deemed that you have not lost your ear protection based on information I received from NROI.

Who are you to say that you have verifiably lost your hearing protection?

Believe me when I say that I feel that double plugging protects ones' hearing better than plugs alone. I double plug myself. But until I see a statement from NROI saying otherwise, that is how I would call it.

Edited by d_striker
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The problem with this is the wording. The term "adequate" is what sets it apart. That term means that it is acceptable and not more than acceptable. Having a pair of ear plugs would seem to satisfy the rule. One of my RMI mentors said the same thing. However, coming from someone who has hearing loss and Tinnitus, if I see someone inadvertently lose ANY hearing protection, I will stop them and have them reshoot.

Sent from the range

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@d_striker

If I double plug and start the COF this way, isn't this my "adequate" ear protection? If I lose the muff then haven't i lost the "adequate" ear protection?

How an RO can declare what is "adequate" for any person (barring no protection used at all)

My point is (and I believe this has already been discussed in the IPS Global Village) if I start in a specific way, then this is the way I must run/finish the COF

A similar situation would be, a shooter with glasses and a pair of safety glasses on top. Both on their own are "adequate", but for the shooter the combination is what is "adequate". If he loses the additional safety glasses and stops would you issue ULSC?

(BTW on the same question far back in 2008, the question was if someone starts with muffs and plugs and accidentally loses the muffs during shooting, should the RO stop him and give a reshoot? The answer to this was Yes, -by the Handgun Rules Director)

edit: D_striker, as I shoot IPSC and not USPSA, I might be totally wrong, as there might be different interpretations of the rules under different regimes. If this is so, please ignore the message

Edited by Dimitri
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