ChuckS Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 You can't shoot over a wall, or under a wall. You can shoot over it... 2.2.3.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers will be considered to go from the ground to the height as constructed. Tall guys know this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 You can't shoot over a wall, or under a wall. The wall height goes to infinity. That should have been one procedural per shot. You can only shoot thru a port in the wall, or around the wall as long as you remain in the shooting area. Both the RO and MD should have been involved in rectifying that situation. Cheating is not gaming, but if you think it is, go ahead and take the procedurals. Perhaps it's been a little while since you've read the relevant rules, but walls go from the ground to the constructed height, unless defined differently in the WSB -- so it's perfectly legal to shoot over a wall.... 2.2.3.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers will be considered to go from the ground to the height as constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 We have one shooter that is close to 7' tall. If in doubt we always specify walls go to infinity. Long snow fence walls tend to sag between the posts so he can see over them many times, and he will game it if we do not mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 What part of the rule book covers "mention?" It's either in the WSB or it's fair game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 What part of the rule book covers "mention?" It's either in the WSB or it's fair game. I'm guessing he meant "mention it in the WSB......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) You can't shoot over a wall, or under a wall. You can shoot over it... 2.2.3.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers will be considered to go from the ground to the height as constructed. Tall guys know this... Yes, it has been awhile, but that's what I really on you for! Still not the intent of the stage, and I have never seen a wall at Norco you can shoot over, even for 7 foot tall shooters... Edited June 2, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If it dosent say you must activate it first and can see it inactivated it's fair game. It's just like walls. If it dosent specify in stage briefing it's to height as constructed. Nothing wrong with gaming the heck out of a stage and I do so every chance I get. If they wanna set up long springs with nothing to do on the way running from port to port for stages and I can eliminate that I will. I shot a coule targets at just a few feet with the gun over the wall before because it did tn say I couldn't. Saved about 18plus yard if move up range. Some yelling was done befoe the gun was even holstered but it was legal. I apologize for my misunderstanding of the rules,having not read them for, well, years. Chuck is right, being older and smarter than me. Game On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you didn't have a WSB, how did you know where to start? Where to put your feet, where were your hands. gun loaded or unloaded, etc? Sounds like an MD needs some serious talking to about how to run a match properly. Squads should not have to hunt for a WSB or guess at how to shoot a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I apologize for my misunderstanding of the rules,having not read them for, well, years. Chuck is right, being older and smarter than me. Game On! No problem the RO didn't have an idea how to rule it and one of the other shooters who was an RO but not ROing the match was the one screaming how many procedurals I should get, mikes, fte etc. Had to show clear twice as the RO was distracted. By the yelling. Had the rule book already pulled and marked as i knew there would be some complaining arguments about it. I had joked about it before I shot it and he got upset then so challenge accepted lol. Does it help often to go over the wall. No not at all it's really rare but in that case it was an easy shot and saved a lot of movement so it was worth it. The MDs have used several extra targets a match to try and stop the gaming and most of them are wasted because it is not something that's gonna benefit ya really. If I am shooting something like that that's totally out there or odd it has to have a pretty good advantage to do so for it to be worth it to me Edited June 9, 2015 by EkuJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 To be fair, I'm not 100% sure there was no stage description. My squad just might not have been able to find it. To be fair to everyone shooting the match, there should have been a WSB and if not, then find the MD and get confirmation it is a free-for-all or the actual WSB. Certainly a new shooter is not to blame, but the more experienced USPSA shooters should have taken the time to make sure your squad was shooting it correctly. Sans a WSB, you were fine and should not have received procedurals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okorpheus Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The intent is irrelevant. There are targets, the. WSB, and the rules. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This was a level 1 match, what did it cost to enter? I set up a couple of matches a month, it usually means turning up several nights after work and cobbling together whatever resources I can screw out of the club. The matches cost nothing for club members to shoot, and $20 for visitors. We don't have a prize table. I've also shot a couple of World Shoots and paid the earth to shoot them. I can honestly say that I have never given up my time to set up a stage featuring drop turners with the intention that shooters can shoot them without activating them, nor have I erected a single wall to disadvantage short people. I have made mistakes but thankfully for those shooters who rely on my goodwill for their shooting, I have never had anyone take advantage of them P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 consider yourself very lucky .... and I'm not sure I would look at it as a negative thing ... "they took advantage of me ...". USPSA is free style shooting which means there will be times when a shooter figures out a clever way to do something that saves them time or difficulty for which you never thought of as the MD ... not a big deal. It's not really a 'competition' between stage designer and shooter. If this sort of thing really does bother you then you'll either have to start investing more time and effort to ernsure it doesn't happen or let someone else do it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIShoota Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd say Its GAME ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I have had the experience with shooting with a lot of GMs-well a few GMs multiple times. Every single one of them looks to see the best way to shoot a stage. This is USPSA we have NO FAILURE TO DO RIGHT rule. I was RO on a stage at the High Desert, when an Open Woman shooter pointed out she could shoot a swinger from a different position prior to activating it. The Match Director and CRO were involved in the decision. They made the correct decision, if you can see it you can shoot it. A stage at LV Nationals was thrown out due to abritration due the fact the ROs wanted a target shot from a specific area and was protested by an excellent woman shooter, because of the "shoot them as you see them" rule. Wrong call. No procedurals should have been issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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