Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Bianchi Format Change


DWFAN

Recommended Posts

There is a rumor of a format change for the Cup next year.

Wed through Fri - same as before. All competitors shoot the 4 courses of fire.

Saturday, top 20 shoot the 4 courses of fire again. Plus top 4 in each of metallic and production.

I'm not sure if it will be the combined 2 match score or the 2nd match score to determine the winner.

Anyone think this is a good idea?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

There is a rumor of a format change for the Cup next year.

Wed through Fri - same as before. All competitors shoot the 4 courses of fire.

Saturday, top 20 shoot the 4 courses of fire again. Plus top 4 in each of metallic and production.

I'm not sure if it will be the combined 2 match score or the 2nd match score to determine the winner.

Anyone think this is a good idea?

If the first three days are qualifiers, then the number that go to Saturday should be based on participation in the overall division.

Open gets all the attention, but production is getting damn close to sign ups. 90 Prod vs 114 Open.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're just throwing out ideas....

I know there has been a lot of talk over the years about how to grow the cup. One suggestion I have is to separate Professional and Amateur shooters. People like to be successful in whatever they're doing, particularly if they're thinking of shooting a national championship. Like MANY (most?) of you, I have MORE than a full time job, other commitments, and pay for any and all ammo I use. It is impossible for me to compete with people like Doug (not that I'm capable anyhow) and have any chance of winning anything. Many folks have jobs where they are basically paid to shoot, the rest of us just try to keep up. We're certainly not going to grow the cup by adding more professional shooters, we have to motivate more of the "regular" shooters. Why should they come just to get their butts kicked??

I know there's a LOT of challenges in doing this, but just a suggestion. Short version... how do we get more "regular" shooters to the match? More shooters=more sponsors

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is already a classification system.

I don't know if it is neglect, or simply abuse of the system it is often wildly behind the skill level of some shooters. I know that every year at Bianchi, there is almost always a master or high master level score winning the lower classifications.

Now right now all it is good for at Bianchi is cash (and I am hesitant to suggest plaques the awards ceremony is long enough). At regional matches there are plaques for class winners. I have a couple of them in my plaque box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote (or copy paste) function isn't working on IE 11 for some reason...

Anyway. Your second statement PPGMD.. They win lower classes with great scores because they don't shoot local or regional matches. They shot the cup or local match once, got an initial classification, and then came back and kicked butt.

My first year in open. I got my gun, it didn't run, made sharpshooter. When it ran, I went to expert. Took 2nd or 3rd at a regional in April with a 19-teen something, then went to the cup. Classifications weren't updated by then, and shot a HM score as expert at the Cup.

It's a result of little participation at the Club/regional level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reply to Spangler

I agree. If the prize table continues to dwindle, (guns were already down almost 50%), the regular guys won't show up. The lower end of Top 20 or 50 (for Prod) money looked to be down this year also.

You have to provide value to the shooters dollar, or make the match more affordable. $300 entry fee isn't realistic for a lot of shooters, unless there is a good chance for a return on their money. They can go shoot a 3-gun match and win a $1000 scope or rifle for the same or less entry fee. They'll also spend less money in hotels and travel because of a shorter match also.

I hope MidwayUSA returns next year, or it could be a very different match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After many years of wanting to go, this year I finally made it to the Cup. Because I had never been, I can't comment on how it compared to the past, but I thought it was a well run event and I had a great time.

As far as "classifications" go, I have participated in a few NRA PPC National Championships, so I know how it goes and what to (and what not to) expect. I went to Columbia not expecting to win anything. I wound up shooting a personal best score for me that was only a few points above my classification, but I knew I didn't stand a chance. I was in the upper 25% of my class and I was happy with my other scores and rankings. I was in the top 10 in the Newcomers class and was happy with that also. I shot a 480 on the Barricades Wednesday and blame my only 35 Xs on the weather. I also 'tied' Rob Leatham on the plates. (We both missed 2!) I suppose that you find satisfaction in personal victories. I left Columbia satisfied that I had exceeded my personal expectations and had made a good showing.

I will go back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a rumor of a format change for the Cup next year.

Wed through Fri - same as before. All competitors shoot the 4 courses of fire.

Saturday, top 20 shoot the 4 courses of fire again. Plus top 4 in each of metallic and production.

I'm not sure if it will be the combined 2 match score or the 2nd match score to determine the winner.

This sounds similar to international shooting events. The top scorers of the match qualify for the finals and then the scores from one extra target shot in the finals are added onto the scores from the match to determine the top places. But who knows what they'll do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally will not be back to the cup. From the inaccurate scores for production division plates, to the lack of prizes and money this year. I would be surprised if MidwayUSA came back as TITLE sponsor unless they are under contract to do so. This match is extremely expensive every year (entry(300$), travel, 1 week hotel(600$), food) and requires at lot of time away from family and work. DWFAN said something like this earlier. I can go shoot 2-3 three gun matches in about the same time off and away and with those I am at least going to win some cool gear that I don't have to fill out a dam w9 for. If I sold the gear I would easily get my entry fee and hotel for a night or two back. it is a cool match, with Tom there it had some sex appeal and flare. it was super FLAT this year. I just didn't feel the same level of excitement this year as I had in the past.

As far as the change to the format. the proposed new idea blows IMHO. run a two day match. 2 stages Friday, 2 stages Saturday, awards to follow. if you need more time run a group Wednesday and Thursday and a separate group fri and sat. There has to be a quicker way to score and record the scores. in the computer world we live in I should click "enter" at the stat shack and scores should be updated immediately. Not sign here and wait to see if a human re-records the scores correctly 2 or 3 days later.

Mail people there money or w9 in this case. don't make them stick around to get their 100 bucks for doing something good. it sucks having to sit around all day Saturday with no social events or matches going on just to go watch the same people walk up on stage 9 times to get plaques and awards. I agree that you must be present to win a gun or other random draw items. before someone says they have to colt speed cup, yes they do and it takes up about 2 hours of the day for me to watch someone else shoot the same plate configuration every year I have been there (3). I already know Dave, the Robs, Doug, Bruce and the rest of the crew are fast. I watch youtube I don't need to see it every year, once was cool. Let people pay 5 bucks to go up and race their favorite or something like that. that could be cool.

Bottom line is without Mr. Hughes the Bianchi Cup was very flat, he at least brought some excitement to the event. The younger guy that took his place was dry and I personally witnessed him blow several people b/c he had "other fires to put out."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Damien had the job dumped on him as there was no replacement for Tom. He is not up to the job they gave him and I bet he was not going to say no, just in case he felt a hand in his back as he approached a door.

But all in all, you are not incorrect. As far as expensive, you have it dead cheap. Try $3K for airfares. Luckily I have friends in MO and they put up with me for a week or two, store my truck and gear for 11 months of the year. That is what the Cup is about. What Tom did for the cup over 6 or so years was brilliant. But they are staring down the barrel of what happened from 1999 onwards. When I first attended in 2003 there were less than 150 shooters. Less again in 2004 i believe (correction required and asked for).

I can only see bad things ahead for the Cup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now to address the OP. That idea will surely kill the Cup. I suspect it is the result of asking very few people what they should do. Or I believe it came from a small influential group of people who don't like to loose and will do anything to win at all costs regardless of promotion of the sport to the grass roots as they have their own agenda. Quite a few people have lost what little respect I had and other many others had for them in the last 12 months or so. The latest Cup just proved to me what I hoped had not happened with these people. But there it was.

Action Pistol is a top down sport, the bigger the Cup is the bigger the interest is in AP in general. What had occurred to bring the top Action Pistol Event back to it's original and deserved position with in the Shooting Sports, through careful promotion, asking nicely and getting a huge amount of support from the industry, a competently run match with a good chance an outside chance can get onto the big stage at the end of the week, even just for coming third in the barricade, but the guy at the bottom has to have some hope of getting close to the top with a good honest score.

Just getting to the Cup and shooting a reasonable score is a significant achievement for many. But this new idea will surely turn the Cup into an elitist pile of brown stuff, where those that are not professionals will have no hope of gaining attention of the sponsors, media and others. An old boys club, run for the benefit of a few, I do believe that is not the American way, or is it now?

Don't mess with this thing again, the last time some dick head tried to make it better they lost 1/2 the competitors and more than 1/2 the sponsors, now we have lost the best damned administrator / organiser this game ever saw, due to interference and a complete lack of foresight, and hindsight. Those that never learn from history are doomed to repeat it's failures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard another rumor or idea about changing the shooting portion to two days instead of three. With three movers it's probably doable.

The only change I would really like to see is moving the match to the fall. It would really be nice to have the spring and summer to work things out before the Cup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now to address the OP. That idea will surely kill the Cup. I suspect it is the result of asking very few people what they should do. Or I believe it came from a small influential group of people who don't like to loose and will do anything to win at all costs regardless of promotion of the sport to the grass roots as they have their own agenda. Quite a few people have lost what little respect I had and other many others had for them in the last 12 months or so. The latest Cup just proved to me what I hoped had not happened with these people. But there it was.

Action Pistol is a top down sport, the bigger the Cup is the bigger the interest is in AP in general. What had occurred to bring the top Action Pistol Event back to it's original and deserved position with in the Shooting Sports, through careful promotion, asking nicely and getting a huge amount of support from the industry, a competently run match with a good chance an outside chance can get onto the big stage at the end of the week, even just for coming third in the barricade, but the guy at the bottom has to have some hope of getting close to the top with a good honest score.

Just getting to the Cup and shooting a reasonable score is a significant achievement for many. But this new idea will surely turn the Cup into an elitist pile of brown stuff, where those that are not professionals will have no hope of gaining attention of the sponsors, media and others. An old boys club, run for the benefit of a few, I do believe that is not the American way, or is it now?

Don't mess with this thing again, the last time some dick head tried to make it better they lost 1/2 the competitors and more than 1/2 the sponsors, now we have lost the best damned administrator / organiser this game ever saw, due to interference and a complete lack of foresight, and hindsight. Those that never learn from history are doomed to repeat it's failures.

The sad part about this whole thing is they don't care what the competitors want, it does not matter in the last 3 years, the Director of Competitions is smarter than all of you & everyone else, his opinion is what matters, if you go against it or disagree in any way you will be labeled a trouble maker. I am interested to see what will happen next, the spin has got to happen, or they will let the chips fall where they may. The Pistol Shooting Sports & the Competitors will pay the price. NRA Competitions will lose nothing. There is a lot going on behind the scenes, I do not believe anyone in the Pistol Department has the ability to change what is going to happen next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a new AP shooter who just shot his first match (Bianchi), this is all very disheartening to hear. WTF is wrong with the NRA? Don't answer that...it took them 25 years to allow detachable carry-handles in Service Rifle...

Do they realize they are setting the shooting sports BACK by alienating new shooters and focusing only on an elite few? Screw it, next year they should just have Doug come out and put on a show for a few hours and then we can all leave. Case in point, Anita Mackiwitz came out swinging and damn near dethroned the reigning cadre of AP, with a wheelgun, and she got hardly a notice from the media, NRA, or whomever. That was something to be celebrated...highest revolver and women's score...but no, they couldn't take the cameras off the cute young things shooting 40th place because their sponsors are in the NRA's pocket. I had an amazing time at Bianchi, and hope to return to shoot multigun-agg, but the politics really turned me off. I spoke with many veteran 20+yr Bianchi shooters, and all seemed very disgruntled about the current administration, and what Bianchi has become.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rippin,

Unless you are on the Super Squad the amount of cameras and coverage is about nil. It isn't a Bianchi thing, it happens in all the shooting sports.

The nice thing, it does allow you to know where a super squad is, as it's the only bay with a billion people around it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best idea ever. I have heard that the AMU is getting an AP range. If that happens another form of the cup could be born.

Mr. Potterfield hire Tom please

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My main gripe about the Bianchi Cup is that it is only loosely related to NRA Action Pistol. It really has it's own set of rules, some unwritten and some that appear in the dark of the night on a bulletin board kind of like the side of the barn in animal farm. :) The rules also sometimes change or are enforced differently based on who you are.

Instead of having a qualifier match at the Cup before the cool kids shoot the real match maybe use state & regional matches as the qualifiers... crazy, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...