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ES13Raven

Shooters That Won't Help

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Heard this statement from a squad member with new shooters

" Tape on your pants isn't a fashion statement. Use it."

I think it embarrassed the shooters not helping and they got to taping quickly.

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Get two strips of plasters off the roll. Keep one for yourself and walk up to the person not helping and hand it to them. They will take it.

Sounds good, to me. :cheers:

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For allot of people, it is not about being informed. It is about just not wanting to help.

One of the more frustrating parts is that while not always, it is often young people.

And, being a new shooter generally isn't the excuse. New shooters are typically looking to learn and be a part of what is going on.

The one's I see sitting around are usually one of two sorts. The first is the talkers, always jaw jacking and blabbing.

The second are the too big for their britches gang. The ones that think they are too good to work.

It is frustrating, and I do occasionally make a polite mention.

But, it really should be up to the squad leader or RO for that group to step up and get them involved.

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One of my squad mates at the U.S. Steel Nationls was in a wheelchair ... didn't stop him from helping the entire match ...

I have zero tolerance for slackers ... They get the benefit of the doubt exactly once, then it's time to take them to task to get them off their as* ....

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My late friend Dennis Cruz always said. "Tape is included with your match fee"

More recently, the best result is preemptive expectation, we had the "big guy" 6 foot 7 act as squad mom before match start and friendly state the squad requirements. The newly Finished shooter has plenty of time to clean and load mags before the next stage, since we wait for the next one usually (So can't use that as excuse not to help). Then encourage all help so we get out quick.

Edited by flack jacket

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This one of the reasons I let my local club membership lapse. I was squaded with what turned out to be some of the best shooters EVA! That's how they acted anyway.

Taping and resetting was for people such as I. The straw was when the shooter started bitching that I had forgot to set one of the poppers. Well, since I was the only one resetting on a 12 person squad, I guess my dumb ass overlooked it.

I haven't been back there in over a year, so now I travel about 45 minutes further to another club that seems better. Also 3 gun caught me, so all those big heads will have to do without me. I've got bigger heads to deal with now. At least they help reset.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Everyone compares golf to uspsa.... Ask the squad RO if you can shot through. Make that squad wait on you

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It could be worse. At a match I shot this weekend the squad ahead of us was so gung ho that they tore down the last stage before my squad even got to shoot it!

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Not that it's a good excuse, but do these people know it's a volunteer sport? I was driving home after my first match before I realized I was the only guy standing around looking confused and overwhelmed between shooters instead of running downrange and helping. At no point did anyone explain that aspect of the sport to me. And believe it or not, some people can be completely oblivious to the fact there's work needing to be done unless you remind them every time. Kind of like when I'm installing a door at work and some schmuck is standing in the doorway so wrapped up in his one sided conversation with me that he doesn't realize I've just slammed the door in his face 3 times because he's in my way. Some people are just wired to ignore work...

I think that's a good point.

A new USPSA shooter is so nervous and they don't know up from down as far as the sport is concerned. At the shooter's meeting of every club match, the MD usually asks, "Any new shooters here?"

If you have a new shooter on your squad, help them out with understanding their duties. Explain that they need to tape targets AFTER they've been scored. Steel can be reset at any point.

I've never really done this, but I think I'll make it a point to explain how things work to new shooters.

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Many good ideas in this thread. I've never had it get bad enough where someone refused to work when publicly shamed, but if I ever come across it I'll definitely try the 'reset your own stage' trick.

I don't have any problem calling people out when they are slacking. In my experience it's usually just because they got distracted and are socializing, but we shoot with a pretty hard-working bunch most of the time.

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I've found that the ones that bother me the most are the shooters who pretend to be helping. They have a roll of tape in their hands, or a number of strips on their pants or shirt. After the shooter finishes, they walk about halfway down the stage, walk around, and then walk back up range. Not once putting a piece of tape on a target. At first I thought this was a "I got there but somebody beat me to taping that target" deal, but after seeing the same thing a number of times, I realized that wasn't the case. My thought was, "If you're going to walk down there, why not just tape the targets instead of walking around in circles and then walk back without taping?".

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Not that it's a good excuse, but do these people know it's a volunteer sport? I was driving home after my first match before I realized I was the only guy standing around looking confused and overwhelmed between shooters instead of running downrange and helping. At no point did anyone explain that aspect of the sport to me. And believe it or not, some people can be completely oblivious to the fact there's work needing to be done unless you remind them every time. Kind of like when I'm installing a door at work and some schmuck is standing in the doorway so wrapped up in his one sided conversation with me that he doesn't realize I've just slammed the door in his face 3 times because he's in my way. Some people are just wired to ignore work...

Well I would say your RO and experienced shooter squad mates didn't do you any favors. They should have said "Here is how it works" You wouldn't be expected to score, but certainly reset steel and tape.

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IDPA has a nifty little rule to address it. If the SO/RO wants to really push it they can DQ someone for not helping, but it doesn't say how much you have to help ;)

We always get stuck behind a slow squad so a few of us have taken to bringing folding chairs. We just sit and watch them.....usually they get the idea.

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Passive aggressive approach rarely works.

It is the responsibility of the ROs to ensure the stage reset is done in a reasonable amount of time.

IF the ROs will not do it, then the squad leaders can assume the responsibility.

Our club is know for having everyone work the stage.

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for the typical adult male between 25 - 50 yrs old peer pressure usually works just fine ... when it doesn't you simple wait until they reset the stage for themselves when it is their turn to shoot and you'll never have this problem again with them or they won't come back to shoot ... in either case the problem is solved ...

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I'm getting ready to shoot my first match next month and this is a good read . I can guarantee you I'll be the first person out there with tape and setting steel , and if I end up having to do it myself I'm going to get irritated and speak my mind about it . I may be new but you can count on me being vocal if I see people sitting around yapping while trying to learn and do what I can to help .

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Last stage of a 3 gun match today, only 2 people working. "Hey guys, match isn't over yet" couple more help. 3 young guys shoot the last stage and just leave while the 70 year old guy helps and stays to help with tear down. Maybe there could be an extra $20 fee for guys that just wanna show up, shoot, and leave.

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At our club, if shooters aren't taping, they're given friendly reminders by the SOs. If they don't start helping, then in theory, the MD will send them home, although I haven't seen anyone refuse to help tape and reset after being reminded.

Edited by FTDMFR

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As a MD, I always include a word in my briefing about everyone being expected to take turns helping to reset stages. There's a significant percentage of regulars at matches and anyone not helping out will get a gentle reminder from one of them.

If I have it come to my attention that someone isn't helping, then I make it a point to speak to them myself. And while it hasn't been needed I would have no compunction about telling someone that they are no longer welcome at one of our matches.

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Last stage of a 3 gun match today, only 2 people working. "Hey guys, match isn't over yet" couple more help. 3 young guys shoot the last stage and just leave while the 70 year old guy helps and stays to help with tear down. Maybe there could be an extra $20 fee for guys that just wanna show up, shoot, and leave.

If the three guys show up at the next match send them home before the match starts. Call out the 70 year man and thank him at the shooters meeting.

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10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a
Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike
conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty,
failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, or
any behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute. The Range Master
must be notified as soon as possible.

I would say that being asked to help out and reset the stage is reasonable.

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I think this stuff really falls on the ROs running the squad, as well as the other squad members. Someone needs to say something to the slackers. Slap a roll of pasters in their hand, etc.

It doesn't have to be confrontational. And you don't need to humiliate them. Just make it clear that everyone is expected to do their part.

I'm lucky in that I'm part of a fairly large group of shooters (who understand the value of a well-run squad) who tend to squad together. Peer pressure alone generally gets everyone else on the same page.

And sometimes, it's enough for the RO to shout out - to no one in particular - the need for everyone to paste.

If you have someone who, after all that, still refuses to help - they probably need to have a quiet conversation with one of the match directors.

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