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Leupold Prismatic Discontinued


Moltke

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My quest is finally over.

Yesterday I was talking to Leupold rep's on the phone AGAIN about new reticles for the 1x Prismatic. This is something I've been trying to get them to do for 2 years now, to install a BDC, MIL's, 4 MOA hashmarks (really I like the MIL's or MOA idea best but whatever). So of course, I go through the usual back and forth with a couple rep's -

1) "Shooters won't be able to see the reticle..." Yes, yes they will. Irons shooters have good eyes which can be proven by the fact we are shooting beyond 300+ yards and making hits without magnification. We are using a 3 MOA dot to zero unmagnified and then also hold off for precise trajectories. If there was a thin stadia line tree available the only thing it would do is make the shooting easier

2) "Redesigning a product takes lots of time and money..." We're talking about adding a reticle with no external / internal redesign of your product. The Prismatic reticle is laser etched glass fitted into the optic, not a wire system like most magnified scopes, so all they have to do is define the MOA subtensions and reprogram the laser. Then install the new glass.

3) "There's not a big market for the Prismatic scopes..." True, there's not. However if you built one that had a more usable reticle in the first place then you'd probably sold more of them already. Additionally if you came out with a .223 BDC, .308 BDC, MIL's or 4 MOA hashmark tree... then for every one you've sold to a Irons division 3-Gunner, you'll probably sell another.

Finally I explain that Burris has come out with a 1x AR scope with BDC reticle called the CQ-1 and that Leupold is missing the boat. They have an opportunity to come out with a better reticle, maybe something that can be used with any caliber like MIL's or MOA while using the same scope body, and take the market by storm. Finally the rep says -

"Oh well, actually we've discontinued the Prismatics so there's not really anything I can do anyway other than put some existing reticle on the glass but I have no idea what it will come out like...."

.... "What?" ... I ask in confusion.

"Yeah the Prismatic is being discontinued so we're not going to put any more thought into it but I can set you up with quick adjust turret knobs for $XXX.XX"

.... So I thank him for his time and the fact he took my call, then get off the phone and start my thousand yard stare into a blank white wall less than 4 feet away.

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Great, we discontinue the priz and replace it with a $1200 red dot. That makes sense?! I was just thinking the other day, if Leupold would put the hash marks in the priz like the Burris it would be about the perfect limited scope. Impatiently waiting on the new Burris designed my Mr. Cassanova. Thanks for peeing in my Easter basket Moltke! (Just kidding)

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Great, we discontinue the priz and replace it with a $1200 red dot. That makes sense! I was just thinking the other day, if Leupold would put the hash marks in the priz like the Burris it would be about the perfect limited scope. Impatiently waiting on the new Burris designed my Mr. Cassanova. Thanks for peeing in my Easter basket Moltke! (Just kidding)

I've used a Pris a few times. I have no experience with the Burris other than looking at it at SHOT. Why would the Leupold be better that the Burris if the Leupold had the Burris reticle?

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Great, we discontinue the priz and replace it with a $1200 red dot. That makes sense! I was just thinking the other day, if Leupold would put the hash marks in the priz like the Burris it would be about the perfect limited scope. Impatiently waiting on the new Burris designed my Mr. Cassanova. Thanks for peeing in my Easter basket Moltke! (Just kidding)

I've used a Pris a few times. I have no experience with the Burris other than looking at it at SHOT. Why would the Leupold be better that the Burris if the Leupold had the Burris reticle?

[/quote

I guess I should have been more specific. I really like the ~2 moa center dot of the priz. The Burris has a 4.4 moa dot. I have not had issue with hitting skinny sammies at 150, but I think a plate rack at 200 would be difficult without a reference point on the rack. The dot would simply cover anything under 8". I have not tried that though. The Burris has a made in China sticker on it, don't like that. I love the hash marks in the Burris for 400 and further targets. Not having to guess holdovers or guesstimate number of dots to hold high is much faster. So in my mind, hash marks in the Leupold would have been the ticket. Or a smaller center dot in the Burris, which they are working on.

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Prismatic user here. Circle dot circle is amazing. Optical clarity is hands down better than any dot.

Outside of 3gun, they could have sold 100x more units if the illumination module didn't absolutely suck ass.

1/3N batteries are expensive and don't last that long. The first two of my units failed constantly and ate batteries even when the module was off.

If they just made a slightly fatter unit with CR123 batteries and a reasonable illumination time, then every tactical-Timmey with a closet full of multi-cam and surefire batteries would have at least given it a second thought.

Even sticking a 2032 battery under the dials like some of their other scopes would have been a reasonable option.

Given the lack of official technical data like reticle subtensions , or even a manual that is specific to the optic, I always felt that the prismatic was overhyped and undersupported- like it's genius creator was fired shortly after it hit the market or something.

I still love mine!

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Shieldpsd.com the original maker of the minisight, and current maker the optical sight used by UK SAS. makes a BDC 3 vert dot sight. that works with both 308/150gr and 223/62gr at milspec velocity. the reticle was designed by multigunners to be user friendly with all the popular loads we use in rifles.

Trapr

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HAHAHAHAHAHA.

I was working on the ideas for the Pris 2.0 upgrade (many of which you cited - upgraded battery, better reticle, better mount etc)

They asked how it would sell. I told them that there would be like 50 guys who REALLY REALLY would like this sight, maybe 100! And we would totally dominate a division that 25 guys liked.

(FYI Battery life will never be anywhere near RDS lifespan in an etched reticle sight)

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It is okay Ken, the AR1x has better glass, wider diopter range, daylight blinding illumination, costs less, long battery life (same AA battery in my 1.5 year old unit) and a mount that is actually solid.

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HAHAHAHAHAHA.

I was working on the ideas for the Pris 2.0 upgrade (many of which you cited - upgraded battery, better reticle, better mount etc)

They asked how it would sell. I told them that there would be like 50 guys who REALLY REALLY would like this sight, maybe 100! And we would totally dominate a division that 25 guys liked.

(FYI Battery life will never be anywhere near RDS lifespan in an etched reticle sight)

...
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Shieldpsd.com the original maker of the minisight, and current maker the optical sight used by UK SAS. makes a BDC 3 vert dot sight. that works with both 308/150gr and 223/62gr at milspec velocity. the reticle was designed by multigunners to be user friendly with all the popular loads we use in rifles.

Trapr[/quote

Emailed them, got a response. They said they will be able to ship to the U.S. In a few months. Hmmmm

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It is okay Ken, the AR1x has better glass, wider diopter range, daylight blinding illumination, costs less, long battery life (same AA battery in my 1.5 year old unit) and a mount that is actually solid.

This is a big problem for Leupold. They are being passed up in the market with products that are as good as theirs, sometimes better, at a lower price. They aren't keeping up with the changing market as well as other companies and have gone from being market leaders to followers.

One caveat... Leupold has a great reputation for warranty service, even including damaged gear. Some of the companies in the same market have a long way to go to match that, which will even out the price some, but perhaps not enough.

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Sorry, bmiller I've been busy w work, matches, and practice.

They make the Jpoint sight for JP, so they do ship to the U.S.,

Here is all the sub tends for the 3 dot/ BDC reticle

Shield site,

Ballistic data/trajectory

Main 2.6 moa dot-250 zero, 200 top of dot, 300 bottom of dot.

First drop-1.3 moa dot, center is 6moa from top of main dot

Second drop-1.3moa, 4moa from center of first drop

Reticle top/btm-10.65moa

Reticle ctr/ctr, all dots-8.7moa

Main/first drop top/btm-6.65moa

First drop/second drop top/btm-5.3moa

Main top/first drop ctr-6moa

Main ctr/first drop ctr-4.7moa

First drop ctr/second drop ctr-4moa

308/bc .400/2700-2800fps

224/.300 bc/3000-3100fps

Best zero for bdc use is 250yds,with above ballistics, 200 works well also.

Submersible to 10', alum body, reg mini-splash only

24moa per revolution

Lens tested at 500psi , cracks before falling out.

Battery life 1000hrs, hard use, turn off 3-4 years

12 brightness, 9 visible/3 nv

Warranty 3 yrs

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Sorry, again flooding has kept me busy.

Yes, I played with the prototype and easily got hits out to 400yds, using the first drop dot. I never needed to put the second drop dot to use with my zero.

It is a really cool sight, that seems up to the treatment that we tend to give stuff.

Here is a pic of my 400 yard hits, low on the plate, and a 100 yd group on the orange square.

The plate is a roughly 4 moa, 12x18, 5 hits.

Trapr

post-3384-0-20712100-1432918455_thumb.jp

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I swear Leupold is being run into the ground by military and bench shooters. By not offering what is actually useful to the action/tactical shooting people they are effectively killing there own ideas and income.

The prism is one of the best 1x scopes I've ever used. I love mine EXCEPT the reticle. Addresses by design, my and thousands of others astigmatism, but severely lacks any thing more than the most basic reticle. Even the craptastic Chinese optics have better reticles than Leupold. Look ma' another dot with a circle, they even have a circle with a crosshair? WOW. As stated by Ken, a decent reticle would be the cats meow. I'd even double pay the custom shop, IF they would put together a reticle worth having in it.

Leupold would do well to employ or get more feedback from some 3 gunners and more practical shooter types. Reticle choices were poor, marketing sucked, illumination needed addressed. But in all actuality, all of it fixable. Offer better reticles, a newer/better designed illumination, get them into some actual shooter hands for feed back.

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They could give two shits what we think or what we want. We do not buy enough stuff for them to care. No money in catering to our whims. Simple economics. Nobody bought the pris but a few limited shooters, and there are not even enough of us to make a decent division. The pris works great for my eyes, but I did nearly as well with an aim point or open sights. I won't loose any sleep over the death of the pris.

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And that's EXACTLY why they sold so few, they don't care what WE want. I didn't get this for a 3 gun optic. It is for an everyday, battery not required, do everything rifle optic.

It could have been a great solution for a wide body of shooters and platforms, but keeping their head in the sand and failing to listen to the end users, has caused it to not be profitable. Leupolds fault, they can blame themselves.

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A micro is a much better everyday optic, the pris has a clear tight dot that is to small for social work and the illumination and factory mount are crap. It is tough if you throw away the factory mount and the illumination, but then it is only good for day match use. Just too limited a market. If the thing took a bigger battery, and the illumination did not shift the impact point, and you could still put it in a single 30 or 34 mm ring then it would have sold a lot better. Just too many strikes to generate mass appeal.

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I think the simplest way to not make money in a certain market is to not participate in it, and then say there is no money in it.

Thing is you can only sell so many 3-9x hunting scope with lifetime warranties before you run out of people to sell scopes to.

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I owned several Prismatics over the years and never really liked them compared to red dots. Etched reticle "reflex" sights had better selling points when red dots were less reliable and had much shorter battery life. Now I can just leave an Aimpoint on and the battery will die of old age before the power runs down.

While competition is a great testing vehicle for technology and concepts, the number of people actually competing is small. For real world use if someone is going to deal with limited eye relief they might as well get the magnification option to go with it.

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