jayjay1 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hey guys, do have my 650 for quite a while now, have loaded roundabout 6k rounds with it. Today I had primer indexing problems for the first time. The primer indexing arm didn´t take the disc properly. It seemed to me, that the primer disc pin was loose somehow, but I couldn´t find a screw or something to fix it. Can someone help me out, please? Best regards, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnr88 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Why not call Dillon? They are very helpful and if you need a part your already speaking with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 check the spring on the indexing arm, mine broke and it took a bit to figure out what was going on (or in my case what was not going on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Nope, spring is just fine. It looks like as the pin, which holds and presses the arm down, is not tight enough, so that the arm comes up a bit and has not enough tension to the holes in the disk. (Kreutz or Kreuz stands for Cross in German, pretty sure, that there were some German forefathers. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreutz ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Nope, spring is just fine. It looks like as the pin, which holds and presses the arm down, is not tight enough, so that the arm comes up a bit and has not enough tension to the holes in the disk. (Kreutz or Kreuz stands for Cross in German, pretty sure, that there were some German forefathers. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreutz ) Kreutz is archaic German for shoulder, kreuz is cross (or intersection) in modern German. My full last name is Breitkreutz (or Bkreutz for short) which translates into broad shoulders. I'm first generation American, my family emigrated in 1936 when my dad was 13. (today's trivia ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Archaic or still dialect German, correct. Do you know where he came from, because here in the Southwest are some Breitkreutz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Konigsburg (or Kaliningrad as it's presently known). I've worked at a few different places in Germany while I was in the Army (Bad Tolz, Augsburg). When I got back my Dad thought my German was horrible, he said I sounded like a farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Remove the two screws and remove the entire primer assembly. Next remove the primer disc and clean everything, re-grease (see your manual) and start loading again. (Don't lose the spring and ball when removing the primer disc... again, refer to your manual). Repeat this process every 3 to 5 thousand rounds or whenever necessary. This maintenance is absolutely necessary on a 650 if you're not swapping from small to large primers on a regular basis. After about 15 thousand rounds, clean the primer tube like you're cleaning a gun barrel (the primer push rod will serve as your cleaning rod). A clean primer assembly on a 650 is a happy primer assembly. The tension is provided by the "wavy" washer but it's unlikely it's lost it's effectiveness. It's probably just time for a thorough cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hey razorfish, sounds like a good thing to do. Will do tomorrow morning, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 While at it, examine the bottom of the disc for scratch. The primer plunger can get dirty with time, and will not retract all the way down, it will grind the disc and prevent it from rotating freely. I just replaced these parts - courtesy of Dillon. There was enough dirt inside the part to prevent it from moving freely - it would still stick out about 1/32". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelindsey Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I only had about 800 rds on my 650 when I started having problems. All parts checked out ok. I pulled off and totally wiped everything off with alcohol and it ran fine after. Apparently there was grit underneath the disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Great info here, I appreciate this very much, gentlemen! What would you think, should I oil those parts after cleaning or might this be a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I use Dillon case lube, didn't want a bunch of sticky stuff attracting things (dirt, powder). Where in SW Germany do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I´m using DCL as well. Nearby Freiburg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 What would you think, should I oil those parts after cleaning or might this be a bad idea? I would avoid oil or anything that may attract dust/grit/powder into the primer holes on the primer disc. Lightly grease the shaft of the primer disc pin where it contacts the primer disc and the platform assembly and it should run fine. Eventually the Indexing Arm will wear a groove in the primer disc but remember that the primer disc has no up or down side so you can flip it from time to time. Even with this wear, I would anything but lightest dusting of oil or grease on the primer indexing arm. Grit in the holes of the primer disc can ruin a loading session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Thanks again razorfish, just did some cleaning work, spended an oil drop to the disc pin and put it all together again. There was really some grit underneath, which was a mixture of oil and some powder. I did set up the machine for the 9mm Luger and never changed anything. Now I understand the function of the primer system and think, the way how the primer indexing arm is installed and works, is a bit on the weak side. If the arm, the pin washer or anything else bends a bit or get´s loose somehow, it will cause problems. Me, coming from the 550, hadn´t screwed the shellplate all the way down, so that if I have seated a primer it always was coming up a bit. Maybe this caused to something unwanted. Will see at the next loading session, empty everything runs fine now. If not, I have spare part packs here (including the primer disc indexing arm). Cheers from Germany, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootertheshooter Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Foxbat is right on. Had this happen to me and took a bit to figure out. Thank god for the ultrasonic cleaner, worked great for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltywheels Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Have a 650 with a few thousand multiple calibers thru it. Now having problems with Large primers for 45ACP mis feeding; sometimes upside down, & sometimes even on edge. Took the primer feed apart, cleaned everything but still erratic feeding. Am losing abt 10% of the primers. Any suggestions. Assistance would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzw26n Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 jayjay, My oldest son went to College at Freiburg University for one year in 2012, he's a German Major from U of M. Did you get a chance to try the primer indexing after cleaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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