Single Stack Nationals Stages

[ktm300]

This was my first Single Stack nationals. The facility was very nice, the organization was very good, the RO crew was the best I have seen. The only disappointing thing to me was the stages. Way too many easy short stages with little to separate the shooters. I had fun shooting the match but not sure if I will spend the money to go back to shoot stages that seemed to be very revolver friendly to the detriment of the Single Stack match. Of course they won't have any trouble filling my slot but.........

Here are my issues:

Low round count, 14 stages 261 rounds, just a bit better than 18 rounds per stage average. There were only two stages with 24 rounds, one the standards. I like a few short stages but they need to be complex to keep them interesting. I would have liked to see at least 1 or 2 32 round stages.

There were stages with options but not many where taking the gun to 8 or 9 rounds would help. So yes you could choose to shoot 4 different ways but most of the time it was in 6's and very few where taking the chance of running the gun to 8 or 9 would give you an advantage for taking the chance.

Most of the difficulty was created with no shoot targets but the ones with no shoots tended to be very close. Even the steel stage didn't present an advantage for shooting 8 rounds in any position, making the shooter go 1 for 1 on the steel.

Stage 1 was 22 rounds, most people I saw shoot it took 4 close paper at the front, 4 close paper in the middle, then from the last position 4 steel and 1 paper. Adding 1 more paper to that stage would leave you with only 1 make up on the 4 small poppers or push you to shoot the at least 2 poppers from the middle position and by doing that push you into an extra reload.

Stage 2, shoot 6 reload shoot 6.

Stage 3, shoot 5 reload shoot 5.

Stage 4 was an exception, that shot very well 8 and 8 with the second position having 2 large poppers. That was one of my favorite stages and I saw people miss on the steel and have to choose to do a standing reload or take a miss.

Stage 5, shoot 6 reload shoot 6.

Stage 6, shoot 6 reload shoot 8 with two close poppers through a low port. Push the poppers out to 15 or 20 yards and it's a better stage but at least there were 8 shots in a position.

Stage 7, Very good stage, lots of fun. First position, shoot 5 one long paper, one long popper, one short paper. Add a paper and another long popper to the first position and push the shooter to go 1 for 1 and it's a lot more interesting. As it was, it was shoot 5, open the door and shoot 8, move to the last position which was challenging with 8 shots, two steel and a rush to get to the max trap in time.

Stages 8 and 9 were about the same. There was a tiny advantage to shooting the first 2 in the window, reload into the corner and shoot 8 with two steel. Most people were shooting 6 and 6.

Stage 10 was 8 and 8 but all close paper.

Stage 11 was hard and helped separate the field.

Stage 12 was the steel stage, I found no way to gain an advantage by pushing to 8 and most people I saw shot it 5/5/7/5

Stage 13 was a good stage, plenty of difficulty, lots of ways to shoot it.

Stage 14 Most of the plans I saw had only one position with 8 shots. 4 more paper on that stage and it could have been a lot better.

[Nghthwk1911]

My First time also at Single Stack, and I could not agree more. this was a how fast can the super squads burn these stages down match,

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've attended only one Nat'ls - about 6-7 years ago.

I was shooting OPEN alongside Production??

My thoughts were similar - no distant shots which would

have tested us guys with dot sights - nothing too tricky

Everything geared for guys with Glocks???

Bit disappointed in the stages, there, also.

[Nghthwk1911]

Oh Don't get me wrong the match was fun, Wet, very WET on Friday. But I think many of us see more "complicated" or technical stages at level 2 and 3 matches, and some at local matches.

But than again we are not shooting 14+chrono on local matches, and trying to push 440 shooters in a weekend.

At the Level 2-3 you can get some more challenging stages in with a "faster" reset that works into the match flow, and at Local you can really push it because you only have 50-90 shooters to worry about on 5-7 stages.

I think many of us are expecting Nats to be panicle of the shooting challenge when in fact it is not always the case.

[ktm300]

My First time also at Single Stack, and I could not agree more. this was a how fast can the super squads burn these stages down match,

I think they would like to have the difficulty in the match to spread the field out some.

[motosapiens]

I think the reason for setting up the stages with few 8-9 shot positions is mostly to make sure SS minor is at a disadvantage.

Overall I liked the match, but I would have liked it more if the round count was a bit higher. Just add a couple targets to every stage.

It was also my first SS nats, and I'm glad I went. I'm not sure I'll be back, but that is mostly just due to the long drive. I'll probably try to do the WSSC instead next year.

[Parallax3D]

I'm embarassed to say that I've never been to SS Nats as a shooter or staff, and I'm actually a MEMBER of PASA!

I MAY actually be shooting serveral of the stages this Sunday at our club match with my new open gun though.

[ktm300]

I think the reason for setting up the stages with few 8-9 shot positions is mostly to make sure SS minor is at a disadvantage.

Yes minor was an issue at this match. Between the round count and the number of partials. Yes I guess the old school folks want major to win but it's a shame as having both major and minor competitive makes the match more interesting.

[Dad]

My son will be shooting the stages Sunday at the club match in Production class.

He will also be there to shoot at Production nat's in August.

We went Sat morning to watch awhile. the non super squad was just as much fun to watch.

[2MoreChains]

This was my first SSN and first time to PASA as well. Its a nice range, and coming from the high desert of Idaho where we mainly shoot in gravel pits it was a really nice change to shoot in a wooded environment (read: shade) and first time for me shooting on grass in the bays.

Overall I enjoyed the match (I shot Thursday and was lucky enough not to get rained on when I shot) and I thought the stages were fine. A few more targets here and there, and maybe a higher overall round count would have been nice considering the distance I traveled, but it wouldn't have changed how I finished or whether I would attend or not.

I thought the match organizers and staff did a fine job, and ran a very efficient and fun match. I'd happily shoot the match again.

[ktm300]

I thought the match organizers and staff did a fine job, and ran a very efficient and fun match. I'd happily shoot the match again.

Just to be very clear, I thought they did a nice job as well. I was just looking for a National Championship match to be harder and to push the shooters.

[motosapiens]

I thought the match organizers and staff did a fine job, and ran a very efficient and fun match. I'd happily shoot the match again.

Just to be very clear, I thought they did a nice job as well. I was just looking for a National Championship match to be harder and to push the shooters.

What does 'harder' mean? I thought the stages were easy to actually get the hits, but not easy at all to do so quickly. It was definitely lower HF than other major matches I have shot. I shot the last couple nationals in st george and I didn't think those matches were any harder, just more shooting.

[jnr88]

This was my 2nd straight Nationals. As always the Staff and ROs were as good as it gets.This is a Professional organization of volunteers. Thanks again.

[Corey]

I haven't been to any SSN in the past few years but I've been to a couple in the past. Its not a high round count, shoot 'til your gun falls off, type match. Its an execution match. You miss a step or don't enter a position just right, you lose 1 second and 40 places on the scoreboard. You look over a stage and think, man this looks fast and easy. Then you shoot it and have poor hits or a slower time than expected. To me, that makes a hard match. I always liked it when I was there and hope to get back one of these year.

[2MoreChains]

^This.

[BritinUSA]

The smallest mistake at this match can have huge consequences, most stages are shot the same way by many of the competitors so getting back some lost points is incredibly difficult. Dave Sevigny had a Miss/NoShoot on Stage 9, he did not fire a makeup shot because he thought that the hole was touching the perf on the NoShoot, it wasn't, and that ONE mistake cost him the match.

Nils lost the match on the last stage, putting his fingers too far into a door handle so they stuck as he was opening the door and nearly broke his fingers (they were still swollen at the Revolver match).

The competitors' equipment is all essentially the same, the winner is the one that makes the least amount of mistakes and stays consistent throughout the match. It's a great challenge to do well at Single Stack Nationals.

[motosapiens]

that ONE mistake cost him the match.

fallacious thinking imho. Every other bobble or mistake he made also cost him the match.

Basically, not scoring as many points as the other guy will ALWAYS cost you the match, whether it happens from not shooting as fast or accurately, or from something more overt like tripping over a prop, having malfunctions, etc....

Edited May 11, 2015 by motosapiens

[mach1soldier]

I had fun at the match.

Stages that are "hard" is relative.

This match is about shooting clean for 14 straight stages. Lots of simple movements but being 6 inches off in foot position would mean you can't see the target.

I shot cowtown last month and it was hard to shoot clean.

You might be suprised at the number of FTE's from guys thinking stages were easy and running right by targets.

[BritinUSA]

that ONE mistake cost him the match.

fallacious thinking imho. Every other bobble or mistake he made also cost him the match.

Basically, not scoring as many points as the other guy will ALWAYS cost you the match.

Before Stage 14, Nils was leading the match. He lost that lead on the final stage, losing 24 points, he lost the match by 15 points.

The reason he dropped those points was putting his hand too far into the handle.

Edited May 11, 2015 by BritinUSA

[ktm300]

The smallest mistake at this match can have huge consequences,

Yes, it is about execution but the level of skill needed to execute was less than some other matches I have shot this year. No decision to shoot 8 shots with steel to make up some time or shoot 6 and do an extra reload to play it safe. Hard is a bad word, other ways to put it would be, complicated, having options to take chances, having to make hard shots when you don't have make up shots. For us in the lower end, not having to remember large stages makes the match simpler to shoot.

Nice match, well run, great staff, just not what I expected from a National event. When I raced off road motorcycles the national level races were hard. A lot harder than the local ones. There were things that only a few people could do well and those people are the ones that won. The great riders could make a small mistake and have an opportunity to catch back up with their skill because the course demanded it and everyone made mistakes.

[motosapiens]

that ONE mistake cost him the match.

fallacious thinking imho. Every other bobble or mistake he made also cost him the match.

Basically, not scoring as many points as the other guy will ALWAYS cost you the match.

Before Stage 14, Nils was leading the match. He lost that lead on the final stage, losing 24 points, he lost the match by 15 points.

The reason he dropped those points was putting his hand too far into the handle.

But if he had more points earlier, he could have screwed up and still won.

All the points count. Every one of them. But I suppose the ones you give away for no good reason count even more, lol.

[motosapiens]

When I raced off road motorcycles the national level races were hard. A lot harder than the local ones. There were things that only a few people could do well and those people are the ones that won. The great riders could make a small mistake and have an opportunity to catch back up with their skill because the course demanded it and everyone made mistakes.

If you're talking about enduro, must have been a long time ago.

If you're talking about hare and hound, still applies, but only in D36 and D38.

[ktm300]

We still run good tight woods enduros in the east. Nationals tend to be > 70 miles of tight woods trails.

http://www.nationalenduro.com/

[motosapiens]

We still run good tight woods enduros in the east. Nationals tend to be > 70 miles of tight woods trails.

http://www.nationalenduro.com/

Tight woods is fun, but doesn't necessarily mean difficult. Everyone I know who has raced them for years seems to agree they are shorter and easier than they used to be, and that that is a good thing because it means most of the C's can finish the race so they keep coming back so the organizers can make money. Even idaho city (110-120 miles of tight woods trails) seems significantly less technical than it was 10 years ago.

[1v3t0x0]

The Single Stack Classic, which is the match that created USPSA's single stack division, is all about tradition. The entire concept and the creation of the 1911 society was about everyone having the same gun (roughly) and equipment (carry type holsters) and only needing 3 mags to compete. That is why there are no more than 24 rounds per stage (3 mags). This match is a shooting contest, not a track meet; the stages are technical and all about execution. USPSA now uses the Single Stack Classic to decide their national champion, but still has no involvement with the match; the match is entirely designed, built and presented by the 1911 society. This year the stages were set up to lean more towards a 6 round option to see if more people would revert back to major in revolver. The focus was to make the major/minor decision very difficult for competitors in both matches of the "Classic Nationals"