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Question here guys, an argument erupted on another board in regards to the published “Load Rate” given in rounds per hour by Dillon for loading on the XL650. It was stated by one individual that the load rates published are not obtainable, for certain reasons you will derive given below:

What it’s your definition of “Load Rate”?

  1. The “Load Rate” is determined from the completion of the first of round to the last in one hour on the machine. All other preloading (press and component set-up) and Post-loading (case gauging, OAL check, clean-up) are not part of the “Load Rate” measuring interval.

2. The timing of the “Load Rate” hour begins from the time you start retrieving all components from normal place of storage, loading primer tubes from scratch, pouring powder in the hopper and setting up to verify the drop weight, lubing brass (if you do) and putting cases in the case feeder (in you have one). Once you commence actual loading, the only rounds counted as part of the “Load Rate” are those completed which in the process must have had powder weights re-verified at intervals. All rounds counted as included in the “Load Rate” are individually case gauged, checked for OAL boxed and lastly cleaning the bench top off afterwards.

Yeah, I understand some of the above may sound absolutely moronic. However, I wanted to get an idea of the number of people here that actually think one way or the other.

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My last time at the bench on my 650 with CF and MBF I loaded 998 rounds of 9mm in 53 minutes. I did not count any pre loading stuff like primer tubes etc but did count refilling the CF twice including lube. Nor did I count anything after loading. The MBF speeds it up immensely but still, the machine is quite capable of loading its published rate. I think load rate refers primarily to handle pulling.

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Question here guys, an argument erupted on another board in regards to the published “Load Rate” given in rounds per hour by Dillon for loading on the XL650. It was stated by one individual that the load rates published are not obtainable, for certain reason you will derive given below.

What it’s your definition of “Load Rate”?

  1. The “Load Rate” is determined from the completion of the first of round to the last in one hour on the machine. All other preloading (press and component set-up) and Post-loading (case gauging, OAL check, clean-up) are not part of the “Load Rate” measuring interval.
  1. The timing of the “Load Rate” hour begins from the time you start retrieving all components from normal place of storage, loading primer tubes from scratch, pouring powder in the hopper and setting up to verify the drop weight, lubing (if you do) and putting cases in the case feeder (in you have one). Once you commence actual loading, the only rounds counted as part of the “Load Rate” are those completed which in the process must have had powder weights re-verified at intervals. All rounds counted as included in the “Load Rate” are individually case gauged, checked for OAL boxed and lastly cleaning the bench top off afterwards.

Yeah, I understand some of the above may sound absolutely moronic. However, I wanted to get an idea of the number of people here that actually think one way or the other.

I'll go with #1 :roflol:

The problem with the second #1 is that it is totally dependent on the number of rounds made. Lets say that prep and cleanup take 30 min total. Also, say it take 10 minutes to load 100 rounds. It will then take one hour to load 300 rounds. If I work for 2 hours, I will then have loaded 900 rounds, my rate is 450 per hour. If I load for a total of 11 hours, my rate is ~573 per hour. So, my rate has almost doubled with nothing changing other than my arm being real sore.

The only constant there is the 600 rounds per hour on that press. If you are using rate to compare presses, all the other stuff does not really apply. I would want to know what the press can do. The fact that it takes me 30 minutes to setup and cleanup is mostly independent of the press.

Later,

Chuck

PS: My last session with a 650/KISS BF (Parent of MBF) was 800 rds in one hour using the first #1 metric.

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I save time by preloading several shot glasses and have a beer-nut bin for easy access. I use a shot timer of course. I also have a low drink alarm. It tells me that I have four more then I'm on the floor. :eatdrink:

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1.) load rate to me is once machine is ready to run the 1st case until an hour passes. I don't count preloading everything.

1a.) you are loaded when the beep of the over-loaded sensor goes off, not before. You must keep drinking until it goes off

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Using metric number one, I load about 500 per hour on my 650 with case feeder but no MBF. That is making competition ammo when I go a little slower and am more deliberate with each stroke. I get to about 600 per hour loading practice ammo.

I would love to have a MBF but can't justify the $400 for the slight change in pace. If it was closer to $200 I would have bought one years ago.

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We refer to a cyclic rate, which is how many machine cycles per hour is reasonable, not including any pauses to refill/replenish anything.

What we refer to as a one hour production rate is what, in our experience, a typical customer could produce, including time to add brass, primers, powder, etc on average, in one hour. We realize every user operates differently, some are much faster, others are slower.

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We refer to a cyclic rate, which is how many machine cycles per hour is reasonable, not including any pauses to refill/replenish anything.

What we refer to as a one hour production rate is what, in our experience, a typical customer could produce, including time to add brass, primers, powder, etc on average, in one hour. We realize every user operates differently, some are much faster, others are slower.

So to clarify, when Dillon establishes it's loading rate. The assumption is the press is set to load and replenishing supplies such as extra loaded primer tubes and additional bullets and cases are at the ready from the start of the hour?

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I look at load rate the same way cops look at the rate of my travel. "Rate" is the speed you are going (what it says on the ticket). So if the fastest you go is 100 that is the rate.

Now average speed will be different as a 0 speed has a large impact on the average.

Going 30 for 100 miles would give one average at a rate of 30. Going 100 for 100 miles and stopping to eat, get gas, or what ever could give you the same average regardless of the fact that at some point the rate was 3 times faster.

What difference does it make? Depends, on what all you want to count. I have loaded at a rate as fast as 100 in 2.5 minutes but I may only load for a match that weekend (200-300 rounds), if you wanted to calculate my average for 1000 rounds, a single stage would smoke me if you included the 3.3-5 weeks of zero rate (on the low end that would be 1.19 rounds an hour).

I never tried to get out of a ticket by telling the cop that I had to stop for gas but I might some day.

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Look at it this way. A generator has an idle speed and a working speed.

A press at idle is zero. Cycle rate is moving components. The more time cycling vs idle the higher the load rate. Accessories and driving skill can impact performance.

If you're slow and QC intensive you have more idle time.

Accessories and operator. The machine can sing.

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We refer to a cyclic rate, which is how many machine cycles per hour is reasonable, not including any pauses to refill/replenish anything.

What we refer to as a one hour production rate is what, in our experience, a typical customer could produce, including time to add brass, primers, powder, etc on average, in one hour. We realize every user operates differently, some are much faster, others are slower.

So to clarify, when Dillon establishes it's loading rate. The assumption is the press is set to load and replenishing supplies such as extra loaded primer tubes and additional bullets and cases are at the ready from the start of the hour?

The clarification might be more clear if you used Dillon's terminology. I think your "loading rate" is what Dillon calls "one hour production rate" but I'm not sure I'm clear on that. :cheers:

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Page 6 of the May 2015 Blue Press shows the following for the XL 650

Cyclic Rate (Rounds per hour) 1000**
One Hour Production rate 800**


** with optional casefeeder

And then on page 20 is shows this:

Loading Rate: 800-1000 Rds./Hr.

So I guess

One Hour Production Rate Loading Rate Cyclic Rate

Simple :D

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Page 6 of the May 2015 Blue Press shows the following for the XL 650

Cyclic Rate (Rounds per hour) 1000**

One Hour Production rate 800**

** with optional casefeeder

And then on page 20 is shows this:

Loading Rate: 800-1000 Rds./Hr.

So I guess

One Hour Production Rate Loading Rate Cyclic Rate

Simple :D

:blink:post-22108-0-91568600-1431050676_thumb.j

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I agree with jmorrris's explanation.

For their cyclic rate is say they just load 100 rounds as fast as possible. Machine needs no topping up etc and operator can crank the handle like a masturbating monkey. So they manage 100 in 6 min. I think that's super fast for manually fed bullets but not impossible.

Then for the one hour rate they load for a whole hour. Of course with arm fatigue, the odd hiccup, topping up prikers etc you can't sustain that 100/6min over the whole hour so it goes out to 7.5min per hundred. In my experience that's still at the top end and would be really honking along without a bullet feeder. Plus you'd be hard pressed to keep that kind of pace going for a whole hour. Doing 200 in 15 min I could see. It's like a sprint. You can achieve that pace for a little while but not indefinitely.

I generally load 300 or so in a session. Any more and concentration wanders a bit and it starts to become a chore more than fun. Each 100 takes me 8-10min. Usually around 8. That's 750 an hour. I think that's a reasonable rate and one many could achieve once they understand the machine.

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I agree with jmorrris's explanation.

For their cyclic rate is say they just load 100 rounds as fast as possible. Machine needs no topping up etc and operator can crank the handle like a masturbating monkey. So they manage 100 in 6 min. I think that's super fast for manually fed bullets but not impossible.

Now, if we get a masturbating money to work the press...does the cyclic loading production rate increase or decrease? :roflol:

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