G19 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 With a 9mm case fully inserted by hand in station 1 (taking the case insert slide out of the equation for the time being), I can see that the case tips slightly as it goes into the mouth of the Lee sizing die. The case tips inward, indicating that the center of the die is farther inward than the center of the shellplate case slot. Stacking tolerances - this slight misalignment, case variability, case bouncing out of fully seated position in shellplate due to vibration while operating press, etc., results in periodic jams at station 1 where the case mouth hits the sizing die mouth. What can I do to ease this situation? I adjusted the sizing die by threading it into the toolholder until it just contacted the shellplate with the ram up, then inserted a case, raised ram to insert case into die, then tightened lockring. Would it help to adjust the sizing die with the case a very tiny bit away from fully inserted into the shellplate (i.e., and thus perhaps causing the die to be slightly more angled outward)? Would using a Dillon 9mm sizing die help? Does it have a larger mouth than the Lee 9mm die? Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy76 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm having the same issue. Talked to Dillon CS and its hard to troubleshoot since its sporadic. Only happening for 9mm on my 650, no problems at all when loading .40. Using Dillon dies and doesn't happen on a particular shell plate hole. I've made sure the shell plate is clean without any powder in the grooves and doesn't matter if the shell plate is full or not. When the shell plate is raised up, I have to push the brass into the sizing die a little by hand when it doesn't go far enough under the resizing die. Tried a friends case insert slide and slide cam and that didn't seem to help either. I may buy a different tool head and see if that helps. Hopefully someone can chime in for some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Loosen the die cycle the press and run a case up inside, then tighten. This usually fixes it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw714 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Loosen the die cycle the press and run a case up inside, then tighten. This usually fixes it If I am reading the OP correctly he has already done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I had to open up the die mouth a bit to fix this problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I've also found that if the ejector wire (the thing around the center bolt that pushes the finished round into the chute) works it's way up, it will prevent the new case from being pushed all the way into station one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) There's another solution if you're not using a powder check. Run a universal decamping die in station 1 (I like the lee, it's cheap and reliable) Put the sizing die (with decap rod removed) in station 2. Cases align here nicely with the sprung locator. Run powder drop and flare in s3 Seat in s4 Crimp in s5 I have a 650 toolhead setup this way. Runs like clockwork. The other more simple suggestions will probably work too. Oh and yes the dillon size die does have a larger mouth (well the carbide insert doesn't go right to the mouth of the die). This does provide some tolerance for misaligned cases but the downside is it doesn't size the cases as far down close to the extractor groove. For that reason I run lee size dies in my 650 toolheads. Edited May 7, 2015 by BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I agree with #3 above, but, if you loosen all the dies and run a full shell plate of brass up into them and then tighten all dies it will make everything work more smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajosh77 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Dillon makes an alignment tool for when you have to do maintenance on the machine that involves loosening/removing the shellplate head. You might try calling them again and seeing if they'll send you one. I got one sent to me for free when the plastic indexer on mine broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Loosen the die cycle the press and run a case up inside, then tighten. This usually fixes it If I am reading the OP correctly he has already done that. Correct. That is how I set up the die. Still has a bit of case tipping as it enters the sizing die. Edited May 7, 2015 by G19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy then the shellplate bolt needs to be slightly tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy then the shellplate bolt needs to be slightly tighter. There is a tiny bit of springiness there. I'll tighten the shellplate bolt down a touch and see if that makes a difference in station 1 alignment. So the correct bolt tension would not allow us to displace the edge of shellplate at station 4 by pressing down on it, while at the same time does allow us to rotate the shellplate by hand, correct? Edited May 8, 2015 by G19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 That's correct. I prefer the plates tight enough to offer some resistance when I turn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG08 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 You might want to verify that the case feed is pushing the fresh case all the way into the shell plate. I had an issue with this as well. Lots of good solutions here....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy then the shellplate bolt needs to be slightly tighter. There is a tiny bit of springiness there. I'll tighten the shellplate bolt down a touch and see if that makes a difference in station 1 alignment. So the correct bolt tension would not allow us to displace the edge of shellplate at station 4 by pressing down on it, while at the same time does allow us to rotate the shellplate by hand, correct? I tightened down the shellplate bolt to eliminate the springiness. I also used a marker to mark the shellplate slots. Couple of observations: 1. When rotating the shellplate (9mm) by hand, there is a very noticeable difference in effort required depending on where the shellplate is relative to the ram. In other words, if my thumb is advancing the shellplate from the left side of the press, some of the slots are easy to advance, but one of them is quite difficult. Even when using the press handle to advance the shellplate, this can be felt, though not as obvious as when doing it by thumb due to the leverage the handle provides. I'm guessing I didn't notice this before because the shellplate bolt was a bit looser (hence the shellplate 'springiness' described earlier), thus creating more tolerance. Perhaps the shellplate isn't level? I've got a .223 shellplate I'm going to place in there to see if that feels the same. 2. Now that the shellplate slots are numbered, I can see that two shellplate slots are producing worse alignment than the rest. When inserting cases into the shellplate slot by hand (eliminating the case insert slide from the equation), slot "1" and slot "2" produce all the instances of the case mouth hitting the die mouth, with slot "1" being a worse offender than slot 2. Seems the shellplate may be asymmetrical? When I install the .223 shellplate, I'll insert some .380 cases and see if I notice similar behavior with particular slots. Will report back. Here is an example of a jam with the 9mm shellplate. The case is fully inserted into the shellplate slot (slot "2") and you can see how it lines up relative to the sizing die just prior to insertion: See my next post, #17 in this thread, for the next set of pics - ran into a forum limit on # or size of pics in one post. Edited May 10, 2015 by G19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Sounds like you may have a bad plate since it lines up better on some paces than others. . It's worth calling and talking with them about it. FWIW My plate on my 550 and 650 both have tight spots like you describe but otherwise line up fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) The only change from the above pics is I have now raised the ram until the case mouth contacts the sizing die mouth - i.e., it is jammed against the die mouth and any further raising of the ram will gouge the case mouth. I have not touched the case or jarred the press, so the case is still at full insertion into the slot. Edited May 10, 2015 by G19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) @Sarge, I added pics since your last post. Sounds like you may have a bad plate since it lines up better on some paces than others. . It's worth calling and talking with them about it. FWIW My plate on my 550 and 650 both have tight spots like you describe but otherwise line up fine. I think I can confirm that the shellplate is bad. I installed the #3 shellplate (.223, .380) and a toolhead with a .380 sizing die (both my 9mm and .380 sizing dies are Lee, so this is apples-to-apples from that perspective). With the shellplate bolt fully tightened down, the plate still turns with thumb pressure and it is smooth throughout - no spots of heavy resistance. More importantly, I hand inserted a few .380 cases into each shellplate slot - they all run into the sizing die without jamming against the die's mouth or the significant tipping of cases I'd see with the 9mm shellplate. Edited May 10, 2015 by G19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 WOW That is waay out of alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Looks like you've solved it. Badly cut shell plate. I'm sure dillon will replace it. Edited May 11, 2015 by BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Yeah, quite the relief to get to the bottom of this. Was very annoying to get the occasional CRUNCH when the case mouth hit the sizing die. And because it's auto-indexing, stoppages like that are a real pain in the butt. Called Dillon today; they're sending out a new 9mm shellplate and having me send the old one back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 New shellplate solved this problem. Fully inserted cases slide right up into the sizing die. So nice to have a loading session without the jarring CRUNCH of a casemouth ramming into the edge of the sizing die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc4ou Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I am glad you found the fix. I have the same problem. I have tried everything. I have replaced everything but the shell plate. I even did the realignment tool but it still hits on #1. I will have to try that next. It is so frustrating. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Exactly the same problem here with the 9mm only! Happy that I´ve found this thread. Will give Dillon a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 I am glad you found the fix. I have the same problem. I have tried everything. I have replaced everything but the shell plate. I even did the realignment tool but it still hits on #1. I will have to try that next. It is so frustrating. Thanks! Exactly the same problem here with the 9mm only! Happy that I´ve found this thread. Will give Dillon a call. A few things I did to help isolate the shellplate as the issue, that you may have already done, but if not, it's worth a shot: 1. label your shellplate slots (white paint pen works well). My misalignment issue was concentrated to two of the five slots. 2. before raising the ram up to the toolhead, use your finger to ensure the case is fully inserted into the shellplate slot at station 1; this will ensure you're not conflating a case insert slide issue for a shellplate issue. 3. try another shellplate/toolhead+sizing die - I had a .223/.380 shellplate and .380 sizing die and could see that with this, there was no station 1 misalignment at any of the shellplate slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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