9mm 147gr X-Treme light recoil loads

[Denny4]

I have two loads to talk about. Weapon is an XD9 5.25, 16lb spring. 147gr Leatherhead coated fp's mixed brass with CCI primers, 1.140

Power Pistol loaded to 900fps: snappy recoil, and larger than I like muzzle rise.

WSF loaded to 900fps: Light push for recoil and 1 inch muzzle rise.

The same WSF load out of mr SR9c for the new CCP division was 840-850fps and would cycle the 9c's heavy recoil spring just fine. Den

[prreed10]

Here is what I've been using for 3gun:

147gr Xtreme w/ 3.4 gr Titegroup at 1.19 OAL shoots very soft in my SV.

[FTDMFR]

Here are my mouse fart IDPA / USPSA minor loads using X-treme 147gr RN .356" diameter plated bullets.

All are at OAL of 1.150-1.155", using Winchester WSP primers, crimped with a Lee FCD to .377". Gun is a 5" M&P Pro.

These are the powder charges I use to get around 128-130 PF.

Unique: 3.5gr

Power Pistol: 3.9gr

Titegroup: 3.2gr

Hope this helps.

(use this load data at your own risk blah blah blah)

Edited May 7, 2015 by FTDMFR

[FTDMFR]

I load the xtreme 147 over 3.2g of titegroup at 1.15" and get 130pf from my 5" barrel. I know guys that go as low as 2.9g at that length.

This is my exact go-to load. I also know about four or five other guys who use this same load and who worked it up independently of each other.

[Willz]

Great info guys.

[robport]

1.160

[Glen9010]

Loaded 10 groups of 5 of various powders and charges. Best functioning with light recoil was the Titegroup at 3.2gr but had a much better case seal with 3.4gr without adding too much recoil. Seems like this is very well liked. I also had good results with Silhouette and Unique. Silhouette at 4.3gr was very good. I may go down .2 to 4.1gr and try that. Tried two sets with Unique, 4.3gr and 4.1gr. Both were good. May try .2 down to 3.9 and check chamber seal and function.

Tried Power Pistol at 3.5gr and 3.8gr. 3.5gr didn't cycle slide well. 3.8gr functioned ok but seemed to have more snap to the recoil. Maybe just me but that's what I felt. I used a bag for a rest to eliminate as much of me as possible. CFE Pistol at 3.8gr poor function. 4.0gr and 4.2gr were better. Again, seemed to have more recoil.

Going to load more TG at 3.2 and 3.4 to verify initial trial. Going to try Silhouette and Unique at slightly lower charges and also at initial test charges.

I loaded all rounds at 1.150". If I were going to try different seating depths, what is a good change to notice a difference? Have read many load down to 1.115 and all the way up to 1.165. Now looking for seating suggestions, I know every gun responds differently, just don't want to waste a lot of time and materials by changing depth by too little of amount.

Thanks to all for helping supply a huge amount of info. It definitely helps a lot!

Forgot, was going to run some Bullseye but not sure on charge to start with. Would it be worthwhile to give Bullseye a try? A friend has some of the new BE-86, anyone know much about it?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Glen9010

[thermobollocks]

Silhouette is good stuff -- I'm surprised I don't see it as much.

As for seating depth, my rule of thumb (and others may dislike this) is you should determine the maximum OAL that fits in your chamber and back off a tick to give room for grime/inconsistency, provided that your magazine doesn't impose an OAL shorter than that. Some guns with crazy short chambers may only let you load to 1.10 and others may accept up to 1.25 with magazines allowing for either more or less than that.

There's not a good reason to go shorter if you already have something that cycles already, but there may be a reason to go longer if you want more room for more powder (more of a thing with major loads, but with Titegroup I know for sure 1.06/3.2 gives me pressure signs while 1.14/3.4 does not).

[rdinga]

try 3.6 grains of 231

[Willz]

Bullseye is just slightly faster burning than Titegroup.

[Jmob50]

I load the xtreme 147 over 3.2g of titegroup at 1.15" and get 130pf from my 5" barrel. I know guys that go as low as 2.9g at that length.

This is a decent load, even better with VV320

[Glen9010]

Seems that a lot of people like the VV N320, haven't seen any in my area for a long while.

Any suggestions for Silhouette with the 147gr Xtreme?

[accu9]

Seems that a lot of people like the VV N320, haven't seen any in my area for a long while.

Any suggestions for Silhouette with the 147gr Xtreme?

Save your Sil for 9/38sc major PF loads or sell it to an open shooter. You won't produce light recoil 147gr 9 minor loads with that slow of a powder. More powder = more ejecta = more recoil for a non compensated pistol

[Nickoli]

My load for now is 3.1gr TG with the 147s seated to 1.165" and it gives me ~130 PF. 3.2grs gets me to 135 PF out of my 2011.

Just talked to commercial loader here in Michigan, I have a pound of WSF that I am going to try out and see how it does. Doubt I will switch this year as im sitting on about 12lbs of Titegroup which will last this season.

[JimM]

My load for now is 3.1gr TG with the 147s seated to 1.165" and it gives me ~130 PF. 3.2grs gets me to 135 PF out of my 2011.

Just talked to commercial loader here in Michigan, I have a pound of WSF that I am going to try out and see how it does. Doubt I will switch this year as im sitting on about 12lbs of Titegroup which will last this season.

I've had consistent accuracy using WSF with 147gr bullets.

[Nickoli]

Jim, I may try it just to try it. I have singles of WSF, WST, and 231 sitting around when I was playing around with other calibers so figured I might as well try it one day when I get bored to see how it differs from titegroup. Also going to try e3 one of these days. My friend is loading it with his 147s and recoil and charge weights are about the same as titegroup.

[wgj3]

I've seen Bullseye mentioned a couple times but not getting any love. Bullseye is a hot, fast powder. Its not the cleanest. It may produce a little smoke. BUT, it is very consistent, requires fairly low charge weights, may still be found for good prices, and meters well in powder measures. I use it for 9mm from 115-147gr bullets. I run it at around 115-120 PF for 3Gun loads with 125's and around 135 PF with 147's for USPSA minor.

To newer reloaders in reference to "OAL",

realize that the mag truly limits real OAL. The limit in the chamber has to do with how much of the projectile exposed above the case neck is actually the full diameter of the bullet. If a bullet has a longer sub-caliber profile, it will likely work fine at long-for-caliber OAL's in the chamber but may not feed in the mag. Conversely, the shorter, lighter bullets will usually be fine in the mags, but when you try to load them "long", you end up with more of the "full diameter" portion of the bullets sticking out of the case and often not chambering well. Ymmv...

Edited May 19, 2015 by wgj3

[Canine582]

Just used up the last of some 40 year old BE. Shot great out of my SA RO 9MM. I used 3.2 for the XT 147 RN and COL of 1.155. The RO has a rather long chamber so for the most part you can load as long as the mag will allow. I like the 1.155- 1.160. My experience is the BE is a little dirty, but nothing to bad. The TG at 3.4 seems to be somewhat cleaner. I do like both, but I've got a lot of TG.

[FULLMETAL]

3.2 TG at 1.15 in my STI is amazingly soft and shoots well also

[KagA152]

Loaded up some Xtreme 147 HP over 3.2 of Titegroup a couple nights ago. Five test rounds cylced good with holes touching at 10 yards out of my M&P 9L. Went and shot 60 rounds for a psuedo PPC match last night and had 10 or so that failed to get the gun back into battery. Loaded some more test rounds at 3.4 but havent had the chance to test them yet. Still running a stock recoil spring, hopefully SSS gets tungsten guide rods back in stock soon so I can grab one of them and a lighter spring. What springs are you M&P Pro/L guys running with 3.2gr of TG?

[thermobollocks]

If you're having ftrbs I wouldn't go lighter on your recoil spring. In fact, I'd go the opposite. I use a 15 in my 9mm and a 17 in my .40, but either weight cycles my 3.2+147 loads in 9. Do not go for the 13 unless you use a lightened striker spring, which puts you into Federal-only territory.

[IDescribe]

Glen, if you're going after soft, you're looking for faster powders and heavier bullets. TG is the only outright fast powder you have. 231 is moderately fast and still suitable. The rest are not suitable for what you are trying to accomplish. Forget the Silhouette and Power Pistol. Your friend's BE-86 is not Bullseye. It's considerably slower.

The loads you're getting are also low power factor loads -- 130ish. You put a 147 with a fast powder at around a power factor of 130, and that is going to be about as soft as you're going to get out of 9mm that will work reliably in the gun games, but softer doesn't always equal better, nor does it automatically get you faster follow up shots. You might find your sights realign faster at a PF of 133 or 135, or with a lighter sharper bullet. Or you might not. YOU need to experiment with that. I like my 147gr bullets with fast powders around a PF of 136/137. In the 130-133 PF range, I'd actually rather have a 124gr bullet with a fast powder. The recoil is a touch sharper, but a 147 in that range feels downright sluggish to me, and that touch extra sharpness I get with the 124gr and a little more powder has the gun running back up to the way I like it. It's preference, and it's how the gun runs in your hands.

My point is that while you can aim to get the softest load possible, you shouldn't assume the softest possible is going to work best for you. Run loads at a variety of power factors and weights, observe how the pistol responds in your hands, and go with the one that works best for you. If softer were always better, everybody would be shooting .45 minor.

[Glen9010]

Glen, if you're going after soft, you're looking for faster powders and heavier bullets. TG is the only outright fast powder you have. 231 is moderately fast and still suitable. The rest are not suitable for what you are trying to accomplish. Forget the Silhouette and Power Pistol. Your friend's BE-86 is not Bullseye. It's considerably slower.

The loads you're getting are also low power factor loads -- 130ish. You put a 147 with a fast powder at around a power factor of 130, and that is going to be about as soft as you're going to get out of 9mm that will work reliably in the gun games, but softer doesn't always equal better, nor does it automatically get you faster follow up shots. You might find your sights realign faster at a PF of 133 or 135, or with a lighter sharper bullet. Or you might not. YOU need to experiment with that. I like my 147gr bullets with fast powders around a PF of 136/137. In the 130-133 PF range, I'd actually rather have a 124gr bullet with a fast powder. The recoil is a touch sharper, but a 147 in that range feels downright sluggish to me, and that touch extra sharpness I get with the 124gr and a little more powder has the gun running back up to the way I like it. It's preference, and it's how the gun runs in your hands.

My point is that while you can aim to get the softest load possible, you shouldn't assume the softest possible is going to work best for you. Run loads at a variety of power factors and weights, observe how the pistol responds in your hands, and go with the one that works best for you. If softer were always better, everybody would be shooting .45 minor.

Great input! Going to try some various loads and powders again. I do have Bullseye, but don't see much with it and the 147gr. I am wanting a lighter shooting round to help my fiance get used to the 9mm and also to help me work on trigger pull and flinch. I'm def not a pro shooter or even a bullseye shooter. Just like to go out and challenge myself to get better by technique improvement. Appreciate all of the input!

[Glen9010]

I happened on some VV N320. One previous post suggested 3.0-3.5gr for the 147. Good range to work in?

[chuck s]

in my 5" tanfoglio, 3.1 gr n320 barely makes PF (126) so i use 3.3 gr and get a consistent 135 PF