Local level scoring, how do you handle?

[arshooterxm15]

At the local level, if you are in a squad with a particular SO and Scorekeeper and you observe them score everyone else by the book but watch them score themselves with leniency...and also watch them dish out procedurals where it borders questionable and/or it shouldn't have been given...what would you do? Do you let it go, ignore and continue the fun or would you make an issue?

[v1911]

Bring it to the MD's attention. If that doesn't do anything, maybe involving the club pres may be needed. Again, if the behavior isn't modified, if ask to not be squaded with them or find another club.

[trouble]

This is exactly why I have transitioned to shooting more USPSA. It's either a procedural or it's not. Less GREY area. You might get a cover call and his buddy that was shooting has his whole body exposed does not. I'm not recommending quitting shooting IDPA, just be prepared for very diverse opinions on calls.

[rowdyb]

call bullshiz, and call it loudly. if public peer pressure doesn't work then never squad with them again.

[RePete]

Bring it to the MD's attention. If that doesn't do anything, maybe involving the club pres may be needed. Again, if the behavior isn't modified, if ask to not be squaded with them or find another club.

IMO ^^^^^This!

[NewColonial]

This is exactly why I have transitioned to shooting more USPSA. It's either a procedural or it's not. Less GREY area. You might get a cover call and his buddy that was shooting has his whole body exposed does not. I'm not recommending quitting shooting IDPA, just be prepared for very diverse opinions on calls.

Right, because everyone knows ROs in USPSA never help out a buddy.

( http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/06/18/range-officer-cheating-scandal-in-united-states-practical-shooting-association/ )

If you think there's shenanigans, bring it up at the match. Call the people on it.

[CoffeedrinkerinNC]

It's sport and there are that group of people that will cheat...Every sport has them, it's not going to change any time soon.

[arshooterxm15]

Bring it to the MD's attention. If that doesn't do anything, maybe involving the club pres may be needed. Again, if the behavior isn't modified, if ask to not be squaded with them or find another club.

I will do so IF there is a next time but I will be requesting specific squad leaders in the future so hopefully I will not experience it again.

[arshooterxm15]

This is exactly why I have transitioned to shooting more USPSA. It's either a procedural or it's not. Less GREY area. You might get a cover call and his buddy that was shooting has his whole body exposed does not. I'm not recommending quitting shooting IDPA, just be prepared for very diverse opinions on calls.

I tend not to be argumentative, especially at the local level, but it does get to me at times when I see this happen at the club. I have always wanted to get into USPSA but there are no clubs close to me that do USPSA. This club is about 30 minutes from me and they only do IDPA unfortunately.

[arshooterxm15]

call bullshiz, and call it loudly. if public peer pressure doesn't work then never squad with them again.

The time I did squad with them it was by mistake but I went with it...will not again however and I will bring it up in conversation with a MD that I trust in the club to look into it. The last time this happened I had a buddy videoing and one of the procedurals they gave should not have been a procedural...when they gave it to me it pissed me off so I began watching them score everyone's target and then theirs and several times I recall them calling a "1" a "0" on their targets when it was clearly outside of the "0" ring. The funny thing was that even with them scoring the way they did and handing out the procedural, I still ended up beating one of them by about 15 seconds overall...the other guy was more...we were all shooting in the same class/division.

[racknrider]

It happens in every sport. You can bring it up to MD but most places seem so starved for SOs they're just happy that anyone will do it.

I keep a running list of names that I avoid when signing up. I hate when I let someone else affect my performance.

[rowdyb]

And this is another reason why as soon as I holster I am immediately at the side of the person calling out the scores. It lets me plead my case if needed and verify what was called out.

[arshooterxm15]

It happens in every sport. You can bring it up to MD but most places seem so starved for SOs they're just happy that anyone will do it.

I keep a running list of names that I avoid when signing up. I hate when I let someone else affect my performance.

True...it is a smaller club and I'm sure they need as many as are willing. I will definitely remember for future matches.

[arshooterxm15]

And this is another reason why as soon as I holster I am immediately at the side of the person calling out the scores. It lets me plead my case if needed and verify what was called out.

I usually do so I can at least see where my shots are exactly. I plead my case once at a state championship and the SO threatened to DQ me for almost touching my target because I was attempting to show him there were two shots and not one.

[Jane]

And this is another reason why as soon as I holster I am immediately at the side of the person calling out the scores. It lets me plead my case if needed and verify what was called out.

I usually do so I can at least see where my shots are exactly. I plead my case once at a state championship and the SO threatened to DQ me for almost touching my target because I was attempting to show him there were two shots and not one.

DQ, no.

But both IDPA (4.22.1) and USPSA (9.1.2) have strict rules against touching targets, and prescribe penalties for doing so.

[M1911]

At the local level, if you are in a squad with a particular SO and Scorekeeper and you observe them score everyone else by the book but watch them score themselves with leniency...and also watch them dish out procedurals where it borders questionable and/or it shouldn't have been given...what would you do? Do you let it go, ignore and continue the fun or would you make an issue?

Video tape it so you have evidence. Then talk the MD.

Edited April 27, 2015 by M1911

[RePete]

Rule 4.5.2 will cover this.

[9x45]

At the local level, if you are in a squad with a particular SO and Scorekeeper and you observe them score everyone else by the book but watch them score themselves with leniency...and also watch them dish out procedurals where it borders questionable and/or it shouldn't have been given...what would you do? Do you let it go, ignore and continue the fun or would you make an issue?

And when these guys get to a State, or Regional, or Nationals, what do you think is going to happen? It's a local match with local idiots. That's all. It's the same thing as guys who shoot the classifier 8,000 times to make Master and get creamed by a Marksman.

[kirbinster]

I have the exact opposite issue at one club. They seem to feel cover is something that should not be awarded a PE unless you are totally out in the open. The claim is we are there to have fun not to win. Well if that is the case why would you care if you get called for cover? I take the approach that it should be rigorously enforced as that is the way new shooters learn and if you don't do it people will really get dinged hard if they ever compete at a "real" match.

[jsg]

I am sure you are correct in how procedurals were called and how targets were scored but keep in mind it can be challenging to check cover and watch the gun and watch the order targets are engaged at every second in a stage. Many times the scorekeeper is not an SO at local matches so he will not help the squad SO call procedurals.

I agree that you should clearly question a call if you disagree but arguing or being obnoxious won't get you anywhere. I hate having to deal with "that guy" that questions any close call I make and wants to argue about it every time. If you get no satisfaction in two or three polite sentences, see the MD.

[tarakian]

I am sure you are correct in how procedurals were called and how targets were scored but keep in mind it can be challenging to check cover and watch the gun and watch the order targets are engaged at every second in a stage. Many times the scorekeeper is not an SO at local matches so he will not help the squad SO call procedurals.

I agree that you should clearly question a call if you disagree but arguing or being obnoxious won't get you anywhere. I hate having to deal with "that guy" that questions any close call I make and wants to argue about it every time. If you get no satisfaction in two or three polite sentences, see the MD.

I have to agree here. As a Match Director, I can tell you we are often starved for SOs at local matches, so you end up having to use the same people every week and the scorekeeper is usually not an SO and will rarely make any calls. The SO's only job is to watch the shooter between the elbow and the end of the gun barrel. He/She will often not see cover or other violations, and it is actually the scorekeeper's job to watch for such things. It's difficult to avoid these situations in local matches. There are not many people who are willing to take the class to get certified as an SO and then volunteer to work matches.

If you have a consistent problem with an SO that you can't resolve in a gentlemenly fashion between the two of you, and you can't let it go, then you should approach the MD. Do so in a friendly and non-confrontational manner and calmly state your issues. If you come at him/her like it's life or death and have your mad face on, you are likely to be dismissed out of hand. We are big boys and girls playing a sport for nothing more than personal satisfaction and maybe a trophy.