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noob data check


pete579

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I would make a dummy at 1.13-1.14 and drop check it in your gun's barrel. Round should fall in, spin and fall out without any sticking at all. Also make sure they fit in the mag which I'm virtually certain they will.

What are you making this ammo for? Just plinking or shooting USPSA/IDPA? Probably start at about 4.2 and work up. You will probably end up in the 4.6 range if you are going for a good minor PF load for games. You need to make more than 3 of each load to get any real useful info out of it. All of the loads I suggest will certainly cycle the gun. I would make probably 20 of each 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 and see what you think.

Barrel length affects velocity. In general terms the longer the barrel the faster the bullet within reason. A given round will be faster in a 5" barrel as opposed to a 3" carry gun. Pressure is affected by the rounds oal. I use the example of dropping a firecracker in a popcan compared to dropping it in a 55 gallon drum. The smaller the space the more pressure will increase and typically velocity as well.

TG is excellent powder as long as you use due diligence while reloading.

Next time you order bullets get some 124/125 grainers and drop the charge to 4.0 or so. Much softer, less snappy feel than the 115's.

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I load to 1.095" for my minor 9mm stuff, and use 3.9gr titegroup for a 124gr MG JHP bullet. I think you'll end up somewhere around 3.7gr to get something like 130pf.

I think 0.001" COAL doesn't make much difference, but 0.005" might, depending on the powder. A general rule is that the less powder you're using, the more sensitive it will be to COAL differences.

The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

I'd recommend a few things to any newb:

1. Get an RCBS lock out die

2. Get a chrono and test your loads

3. Set up your dies when every station is full. If you're setting your seat die while everything else is empty, don't be surprised if your COAL isn't what you wanted after all stations fill up.

4. Your first few batches, bring a squib rod to the range, and then wear gloves while shooting.

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I load to 1.095" for my minor 9mm stuff, and use 3.9gr titegroup for a 124gr MG JHP bullet. I think you'll end up somewhere around 3.7gr to get something like 130pf.

I think 0.001" COAL doesn't make much difference, but 0.005" might, depending on the powder. A general rule is that the less powder you're using, the more sensitive it will be to COAL differences.

The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

I'd recommend a few things to any newb:

1. Get an RCBS lock out die

2. Get a chrono and test your loads

3. Set up your dies when every station is full. If you're setting your seat die while everything else is empty, don't be surprised if your COAL isn't what you wanted after all stations fill up.

4. Your first few batches, bring a squib rod to the range, and then wear gloves while shooting.

I think you mean 4.7. :)

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I would make a dummy at 1.13-1.14 and drop check it in your gun's barrel. Round should fall in, spin and fall out without any sticking at all. Also make sure they fit in the mag which I'm virtually certain they will.

What are you making this ammo for? Just plinking or shooting USPSA/IDPA? Probably start at about 4.2 and work up. You will probably end up in the 4.6 range if you are going for a good minor PF load for games. You need to make more than 3 of each load to get any real useful info out of it. All of the loads I suggest will certainly cycle the gun. I would make probably 20 of each 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 and see what you think.

Barrel length affects velocity. In general terms the longer the barrel the faster the bullet within reason. A given round will be faster in a 5" barrel as opposed to a 3" carry gun. Pressure is affected by the rounds oal. I use the example of dropping a firecracker in a popcan compared to dropping it in a 55 gallon drum. The smaller the space the more pressure will increase and typically velocity as well.

TG is excellent powder as long as you use due diligence while reloading.

Next time you order bullets get some 124/125 grainers and drop the charge to 4.0 or so. Much softer, less snappy feel than the 115's.

Right now I'm reloading for my own enjoyment, to learn a new skill, and to round out my hobby a bit more.

I remembered my other question while reading your comment and you seem to have already answered it. Looking at the data and knowing plated falls between lead and jacketed, I was left wondering, do I really have to back off the normally recommended 10% or could I simply start at the minimum for lead since it would theoretically be the 10% less for plated if plated data were published by the various manufacturers and other trusted data producers. The answer appears to be yes, I can start higher if I'm using plated.

The reason for only 3 in each charge was simply so once it goes bang and the bullet (hopefully) leaves the barrel but the slide isn't pushed far enough to eject the case, chamber the next round, or stay open on the last round, I wasn't left with a bunch needing to be opened up and recharged. With some of the starting charges being so light, for what I perceived to be potential squibs, I didn't want to over produce for initial testing. I've read a lot of comments from new guys stating the made up 50 or 100 only to have to break them back down and try again. I figured if it didn't work in 3 it just wasn't worth a 4th, 5th or 10th until I was more in the accuracy stage of testing. With your insight and experience confirming some of my suspicions and giving me new information, I'm willing to compromise and make 10 each and I'm more comfortable starting at 4.0gr now. I'm still probably going to step up 0.1gr instead of 0.2 since I'm new though and not sure how much of a difference it will make (I will gladly let you know if you were right all along, just don't tell my wife, lol). Once I get my first range trip out of the way, my confidence level should go up, and I'll be willing to take more risks. (that really doesn't sound right but I hope you know what I mean.)

Thanks for the reply!

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Right now I'm reloading for my own enjoyment, to learn a new skill, and to round out my hobby a bit more.

I remembered my other question while reading your comment and you seem to have already answered it. Looking at the data and knowing plated falls between lead and jacketed, I was left wondering, do I really have to back off the normally recommended 10% or could I simply start at the minimum for lead since it would theoretically be the 10% less for plated if plated data were published by the various manufacturers and other trusted data producers. The answer appears to be yes, I can start higher if I'm using plated.

The reason for only 3 in each charge was simply so once it goes bang and the bullet (hopefully) leaves the barrel but the slide isn't pushed far enough to eject the case, chamber the next round, or stay open on the last round, I wasn't left with a bunch needing to be opened up and recharged. With some of the starting charges being so light, for what I perceived to be potential squibs, I didn't want to over produce for initial testing. I've read a lot of comments from new guys stating the made up 50 or 100 only to have to break them back down and try again. I figured if it didn't work in 3 it just wasn't worth a 4th, 5th or 10th until I was more in the accuracy stage of testing. With your insight and experience confirming some of my suspicions and giving me new information, I'm willing to compromise and make 10 each and I'm more comfortable starting at 4.0gr now. I'm still probably going to step up 0.1gr instead of 0.2 since I'm new though and not sure how much of a difference it will make (I will gladly let you know if you were right all along, just don't tell my wife, lol). Once I get my first range trip out of the way, my confidence level should go up, and I'll be willing to take more risks. (that really doesn't sound right but I hope you know what I mean.)

Thanks for the reply!

In general I agree with what Sarge said above. The plated is pretty similar to lead, I'd start at 3.9 and go to 4.3 based on your experience and caution yu are trying to exercise. Reinforcing what Sarge said, do the plunk test to get an idea what COAL is appropriate for your gun as opposed to going with some average of the loads you reviewed.

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I load to 1.095" for my minor 9mm stuff, and use 3.9gr titegroup for a 124gr MG JHP bullet. I think you'll end up somewhere around 3.7gr to get something like 130pf.

I think 0.001" COAL doesn't make much difference, but 0.005" might, depending on the powder. A general rule is that the less powder you're using, the more sensitive it will be to COAL differences.

The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

I'd recommend a few things to any newb:

1. Get an RCBS lock out die

2. Get a chrono and test your loads

3. Set up your dies when every station is full. If you're setting your seat die while everything else is empty, don't be surprised if your COAL isn't what you wanted after all stations fill up.

4. Your first few batches, bring a squib rod to the range, and then wear gloves while shooting.

I think you mean 4.7. :)

Well, my shorter 9mm minor load is 3.9gr like I said, but that's with the 124 bullet. I can't remember how much I was using the last time I was trying 115 bullets, but 4.7 seem like a lot to me. I use 5gr for max velocity plated loads in 357 magnum (a hair under 1100fps)...

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I'm an experienced shooter that's just getting into reloading. I've done a lot of research here and on other forums, websites, books, etc while hunting down components. I've finally gathered everything I need to get started (not necessarily what I was looking for, but I believe it should work and at least get me started) so I'm interested in getting some experienced eyes on my load plan to make sure I'm on the right track. I have:

Beretta 92A1 (4.9" barrel)

Berry's 9mm (.356") plated 115gr RN

Hodgdon Titegroup

CCI SP primers

Blazer once fired brass (mine from the Beretta)

Lee single stage press and dies

I've started making dummy rounds to get a feel for the process and to get the dies set up. From the data I've found and other information I've looked at I'm planning to start with:

COL 1.110" (0.010" above Hodgdon min and 0.020" below Berry's recommendation)

3.5gr - 10% under TG min load (LRN)

3.6

3.7

3.8

3.9 - TG min load (LRN)

4.0

4.1

4.2

4.3 - TG max load (LRN)

These are for function test, so I'm planning to only make 3 of each charge listed, then recharge 5 each with the most successful charges to test for accuracy and begin increasing COL to look for improvements, and continue narrowing down and increasing test loads until I find "the one" with these components. (I just realized while writing this, that this is almost like dating, but hopeful more enjoyable.)

As for the COL increase itself, does 0.001" make a significant enough difference in accuracy/pressure to mess with (and make constantly) or is 0.005" enough to "fine tune" a load? (I'm using digital calipers from a previous job that go to 0.0001")

Now with these being plated, I've read they fall between lead and jacketed data, so if I'm not happy with my results at max lead, do I need to increase to min jacketed COL to begin increasing into the low/mid jacketed charges or am I safe between Berry's recommended 1.130" and jacketed 1.250"? Can I safely go below 1.130" with jacketed charges?

Just for my general knowledge, what effect does barrel length have on velocity and pressure?

Also, I'm aware of TG not being the "best choice" for new reloaders to learn with because it doesn't fill the case enough to red flag potential double or triple charges at a glance, but I like my pistol, hands, and face enough just as they are to be extra vigilant and meticulous in my process. Aka, if in doubt, dump it or pull it, and start over.

Thanks!

I load to 1.095" for my minor 9mm stuff, and use 3.9gr titegroup for a 124gr MG JHP bullet. I think you'll end up somewhere around 3.7gr to get something like 130pf.

I think 0.001" COAL doesn't make much difference, but 0.005" might, depending on the powder. A general rule is that the less powder you're using, the more sensitive it will be to COAL differences.

The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

I'd recommend a few things to any newb:

1. Get an RCBS lock out die

2. Get a chrono and test your loads

3. Set up your dies when every station is full. If you're setting your seat die while everything else is empty, don't be surprised if your COAL isn't what you wanted after all stations fill up.

4. Your first few batches, bring a squib rod to the range, and then wear gloves while shooting.

I think you mean 4.7. :)

Well, my shorter 9mm minor load is 3.9gr like I said, but that's with the 124 bullet. I can't remember how much I was using the last time I was trying 115 bullets, but 4.7 seem like a lot to me. I use 5gr for max velocity plated loads in 357 magnum (a hair under 1100fps)...

If you are running 3.9 with a 124 you have to go up in charge with a lighter bullet to get similar performance results. Typical 9mm loads with TG are around 3.6 147's, 4.0 124's and 4.4-6 for 115's. 5 grains of TG gets you 1100fps out of a 357 mag case?

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If, according to the original post, he is using a Lee Single Stage press he really doesn't need to worry about having the shell plate full.

:roflol:

Technically it has to be full or he wouldn't have anything on the plate at all. :goof:

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The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

For some reason I'm just not understanding this. Can you, or someone else, try explaining it a different way? The reason for starting longer and going shorter (other than pressure, if there is one), or provide a source that explains this? I did a little looking yesterday but the only thing I found before I had to hit the bunk was from Nosler on setting up rifle COAL. Is it basically the same thing for pistol? I know there are some similarities between loading pistol and rifle but there's also differences, and I haven't spent nearly the amount of time looking into that, other than a couple YouTube videos and random articles I stared reading only to realize they were talking rifle. My only real understanding of seating closer to the lands is to reduce the jump but too close can cause pressure spikes too because, as I remember it being explained, it's like trying to hop a curb in your car with your tire almost touching it. It takes more effort to get started versus starting a foot back and having more acceleration. Thanks.

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In pistol rounds I have found guns are very picky about what ammo they like best. Getting as close to the lands is not critical from what I have seen. Often times guns will run better and shoot tighter groups with shorter rather than longer oal's in one case while another gun may prefer longer loads. Generally speaking I think all the listed loads in books etc tend to load too short.

But the truth remains, the shorter the oal the higher the pressure and the longer the OAL the lower the pressure so you have to adjust powder as needed.

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Thanks Sarge. I would guess book data is based somewhat on SAAMI standards to give starting data since there are so many different barrels/lengths, bullets, etc and powder manufactures recommend the 10% reduced charge to try and prevent over pressure since they also don't know the barrel you're using, and book COAL seems to be the minimum unless otherwise noted so the round should feed in almost anything. They list the barrel length, COAL, primer, etc, etc, they used so less experienced reloaders can look at it and have a place to start, while guys like you that have compiled years of you're own data and loads can look at it and know you don't nessissary have to start at the very beginning if you've used something similar in the past.

Anyway, to check my understanding again, only because I'm using plated, I can start with the lead data as it's written and find the longest COL that will chamber without touching the lands and fit the mag and gradually reduce COL, but with each COL reduction reduce the charge. So if I start at 1.135" and find 4.0gr & 4.2gr are good but I want to see if I can group better, I'd reduced COL maybe 0.005" to 1.130" and reduce the charge by 0.2gr to 3.8gr and work the charge back up. That way I'm gradually increasing pressure as case volume decreases instead of chasing pressure with increasing case volume? (I'm just throwing numbers around for the sake of an example.)

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The listed values are minimum oal. Going up from those is not a large concern. In most pistols the magazine will limit the oal, and the max oal will differ with different bullet profiles. The difference between 1.130 and 1.135 will rarely be noticeable. With low charges, I find almost no change in velocity or accuracy when changing oal from 1.100 and 1.140 in my g34. I think they both have plenty of room inside, so the extra extra room doesn't matter.

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The OAL you use shouldn't have anything to do with any published data you find on the net. You need to start long, and then back off until you can insert the dummy round into your chamber without the bullet hitting the rifling, and then back off another 0.005" from there. The published COAL data should just give you an idea where to start with powder charges. If your OAL is lower than published data, then start off with less powder (like .2gr less than their start charge).

For some reason I'm just not understanding this. Can you, or someone else, try explaining it a different way? The reason for starting longer and going shorter (other than pressure, if there is one), or provide a source that explains this? I did a little looking yesterday but the only thing I found before I had to hit the bunk was from Nosler on setting up rifle COAL. Is it basically the same thing for pistol? I know there are some similarities between loading pistol and rifle but there's also differences, and I haven't spent nearly the amount of time looking into that, other than a couple YouTube videos and random articles I stared reading only to realize they were talking rifle. My only real understanding of seating closer to the lands is to reduce the jump but too close can cause pressure spikes too because, as I remember it being explained, it's like trying to hop a curb in your car with your tire almost touching it. It takes more effort to get started versus starting a foot back and having more acceleration. Thanks.

Most people around here are shooting 1911's, and that platform was designed around a fairly long bullet compared to a 9mm. Generally speaking, longer rounds will feed more reliably in that platform. So, most people tend to start long and work back.

As sarge has said, your gun may like something else or be more accurate elsewhere. Personally, I don't have the time to test a bunch of different COLs at the same velocity for accuracy, but some people do.

But I still think you should run the test I described, at the very least to know what your chamber can handle. You don't want to load up a bunch of test stuff and find out at the range that it won't fit your chamber.

So, load up a dummy pretty long, and take your barrel out, then do the plunk test. Give the round a spin see if it's free or not. If not, adjust your size die down a hair and try again (probably do all of this before applying any crimp to the round, if possible). Repeat until everything is free and dandy. Then you'll know the limits of your chamber.

My kimber single stack gun has a pretty dang short chamber, which was pretty surprising. It would have stunk to find out the hard way that almost all loads posted on here for 9mm won't fit my gun :)

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  • 1 month later...

Just wanted to say thank you for all the info and advice and give a quick update.

I finally had a chance to test a couple batches last weekend (started with 5 each 3.9 to 4.3, then made up 10 each of 4.0 & 4.2 and 5 each at 4.4gr, 4.5gr, and 4.6 (didn't shoot the 4.6) and went back to the range the next day. I videoed the various loads and analyzed the footage and didn't see any real improvement or difference by going hotter. They just got snappier.). I'm liking 4.2gr at 1.135" OAL and my wife is enjoying 4.0gr at 1.135" OAL. I just ordered some Berry's 124gr RN 9mm to experiment with and went ahead and bought a box of Berry's 230gr RN .45acp as well since I found some dies on this trip in a Cabela's in TX (so glad they have truck parking. I lost focus and wandered around too long which ran out my HOS so I had to take a 10 on their property, :lol: ). I can't wait to get home (6/12/15) and see what I can make with them!

(God bless my wife. When I told her I found some dies for 45acp, she ran the 45acp I picked up at the range through the tumbler and then sorted them by primer size and manufacturer and is helping hunt down primers :bow: )

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