Classified deals slipping through my fingers

[uncledoc]

+1 to what mjohn said!

[Garmil]

I'm surprised there is no buyer/seller feedback system on this forum. It's great to have on other forums I've used.

[DagoRed]

I'll take it means I'll take it. Frankly if you're asking questions you haven't decided yet, no harm in that, I missed deals while deciding too, it's the risk. I've learned the hard way over the years about taking the money on the barrel head. I sold a truck recently, ended up taking longer than it needed to and I took less. Because I held it for a guy and turned away a couple others because he was a firm commit and needed to get the money from his bank. A second guy same deal, was actually on the way to my house with money, two hours late called to say changed mind. After that, no money then no reseve Money talks bullcrap walks.

A couple exchanges of pm or email about an item should be sufficient. If it's more than that in my experience the person probably isn't buying. Ive sold and bought lots of things online and in person (boats, rv, mobile home, cars, lots of stuff) and real buyers usually know there stuff, aska. Few questions and are done. Seems the people that take the longest usually don't buy. If it's being held for you and you decide after a lot of questions that it's not exactly what you want and turn it down and they lost the other potential buyers what then? You're happy because you had a chance without risk, they meantime are irked.

I doubt anyone on here wants to screw anybody else. You need to be careful w your money, that's smart. I'd hazard that if you bought something in good faith and got it and there was a problem you could send it back.

I get your frustration though I hate missing out on a deal

Red

[dossauce]

I'm surprised there is no buyer/seller feedback system on this forum. It's great to have on other forums I've used.

I think that would be a pretty helpful feature although there's probably not too many people that buy and sell regularly, it's not really the point of the forums. However I would agree with earlier posts that you can tell a decent bit about a person by simply their involvement on the forums here. It's not a tell all but it's something

[GrumpyOne]

There is a reason why there is no buyer/seller feedback.

The Classifieds Forum is for contributing members to occasionally sell or trade their personally owned wares (selling for friends is not okay) as a way of returning back to them a little of what they have given.

Contributing to the Forum

The Classified Forum was originally created to serve as an outlet to allow contributing members to buy, sell, or trade their equipment and supplies. This Forum, in general, was not intended to be free place to buy or sell firearms, shooting gear, or unrelated items. Meaning, if you're only here to sell your goods, you are not welcome.

In addition to the minimum post-count criteria, you are not welcome to post in the Classifieds Forum until you are considered, by the Moderator Group using their subjective criteria, an active participant in the Forums in general. If the Moderator Group suspects you of bumping your post count or making an end run around the classifieds rules by posting something for sale somewhere else on the forum, you will have your classified privileges suspended, and your post count reset to zero (0). Following the contribution of 100 meaningful posts, you may appeal for restoration of your classifieds privileges by sending a pm to any moderator or administrator. Repeated violations may result in being banned from the Forum completely.

As the forum has grown, the Moderators have noticed an increase in the number of Members who either confine their posting to the Classified Forum or post in the Classifieds out of all proportion to their contribution to the rest of the forums. Therefore the Classified Rules have been further modified:

Members using the Classifieds on an ongoing basis are expected to contribute to the core mission of Brian’s Forums – the discussion of shooting. If, in the Moderators opinion, the majority of a member's posts are in the Classifieds Forum or do not advance shooting discussions in a meaningful way, classified privileges will be revoked. In short, if you're here just to sell a lot of stuff, you must either contribute to the forum's discussions or contact Brian about a Dealer Forum. This is equally true for members with Classified status (50+ posts).

[dossauce]

Yep, agreed. I think we sometimes take advantage of the classifieds but that's not what we're here for. We all want to be better shooters. I probably read here 100x more then I post.

[DagoRed]

Agreed. I'm not good enough to contribute much but do read a lot.

Red

[motosapiens]

I'm sure the mods here would delete any negative feedback anyway. We can't have negativity polluting our zen happy place.

[Lifeislarge]

Still think it's BS that contributing members gain the benefit of selling on the classifieds but any dipshit on the interwebz can sign up for an account and reap the benefits of the good deals that are often sold under the premise that another contributing forum member will get a good deal from a trustworthy seller. More often than not, the buyer wins on the transaction more than the seller.

[motosapiens]

Still think it's BS that contributing members gain the benefit of selling on the classifieds but any dipshit on the interwebz can sign up for an account and reap the benefits of the good deals that are often sold under the premise that another contributing forum member will get a good deal from a trustworthy seller. More often than not, the buyer wins on the transaction more than the seller.

that doesn't make any economic sense whatsoever. If you think you don't win on the transaction as the seller, you should raise your prices. Also keep in mind that you would win even *less* if you somehow restricted your buying audience.

You can't escape from adam smith's invisible hand.

[thermobollocks]

While obviously any classifieds environment is going to be "let the buyer beware," it's the buyer who has to go out on a limb and send someone money, so it's the buyer who should generally have some assurance that the seller is not a conman.

[trgt]

I'm surprised there is no buyer/seller feedback system on this forum. It's great to have on other forums I've used.

On Calguns here locally the feedback system is a nice way to filter out flakes, that's really the most it can do, since even folks with 'good' reputation can turn on you on your transaction. But for the most parts folks with good selling ratings or high post counts are fine to deal with.

On Enos I've found the post count is a good proxy for 'reputation' as far as being a buyer or seller - the types of folks that will fly-by-night / hit-run on transactions simply won't have the time or character to put into participating at Enos, especially as a seller. With regard to worrying about buyer's taking advantage of good deals, Motosapien is spot on, seller can chose a higher price to sell, or they might decide on lower price for less hassle/faster sale, they are totally in control.

[kevin c]

Still think it's BS that contributing members gain the benefit of selling on the classifieds but any dipshit on the interwebz can sign up for an account and reap the benefits of the good deals that are often sold under the premise that another contributing forum member will get a good deal from a trustworthy seller. More often than not, the buyer wins on the transaction more than the seller.

I made this same observation a while back (it's up there in one of the pinned threads heading the calssifieds, I think). Bottom line from the moderators - they will not tell us who we must sell to; that's up to the individual seller. If it's just about the money, then you let the sale go through. But if you only want to sell to those have contributed to the general forums, or want to excude those who come only looking for the bargains we offer here as between good friends or members of a close community (as I think we view ourselves here), then you just pm the would be buyer with a polite, "sorry, it's spoken for already", no other explanation needed. Doing so would not be disappointing anybody whom we would likely care that much about anyway.

Edited May 5, 2015 by kevin c

[himurax13]

Agree with everyone else.

People asking questions aren't committed. People who ask where to send money are.

I used to give people asking questions first priority but I ended up losing the sale 95% of the time to the person asking questions and the next person in line.

Agree.

I've played the 20 questions before only to have 'the buyer' back out or end communication and during that time a second or third interested party pass because they found the same item or something else.

This has happened to me more than once.

I feel for the OP though, I always seem to miss the super "Deals" that pop up randomly in the classifieds, LOL.

I actually breath a sigh of relief when I don't see anything posted that I missed.

[MJPLEO]

I'm sure you'll see that many of the sellers here have things priced to move as they usually have another project in mind. That being said the buyers are just as quick when they see a good deal. Sometimes you just got to jump on it.

[armydad]

Good topic. I'm a not-so newbie to the forum but have few posts as I won't post if I don't feel I can make a beneficial contribution. I just don't have the knowledge and experience in the sport or with the equipment. I read it every day, over various topics and learn as much as I can. My posts will grow with my experiences. This is such a great forum.

I've purchased a few guns and other equipment on this forum after using it for research and messaging with members. It's been a very positive experience and I will contribute as much as I can. I think Grumpy's explanation was right on.

If members stay current with the forum, they will learn member's personalities, etc. and can get a descent handle on them. For me, I think I know who are the solid citizen's and who aren't, in a general sense. Most members seem solid and post count alone is a pretty good indicator for me. The Classifieds are a benefit and should not be the main reason folks join the forum.

[EkuJustice]

If you want something say I'll take it to know you spoke for it. If you have a question you want confirmed to make a decision. Then say I'll take it with the question/provision. Like if you see a gun and they describe the gun etc and forget to mention caliber or something To say I'll take it provided it's a 40 cal is what should be said not I have a question what caliber is it they tell you and then you say I'll take it. If you want it and just need something confirmed then say you will take if provided it's what you your stipulation is.

On this forum I would say you are pretty safe as you can't just join and post something to sell and people actually know who each other are and shoot with those people on a regular basis. They are also pretty honest about what they are selling and if there is an issue it's usually disclosed because you know who they are Buying from someone on other forums or at a gun show on a hand shake are different ball games and it's not uncommon for someone to have a gun with an issue or even one they messed up and instead of fixing it or whatever just take it to a show to pawn the problem off and say yap runs great when it barely works.

[us820]

Questions are tire kicking.I have found if you are really interested tell the guy "I want it but I need a few questions answered.Call me ASAP @555-5555 and let's hammer this out"

[Bigsampson]

I have lost deals for the same reasons.

The bottom line is that the first person that says I'll take it, is first in line.

While I am asking questions about round count, trying to haggle over a few dollars, other conversations are also taking place. You just have to be aware and be ready to commit to the deal. Otherwise people trying to sell would get jerked around mercilessly.

[Nimitz]

when I sell something, particularily if i know it's likely to be a hot item, I'm always careful to put in the post " first 'I'll take it' via PM based on timestamp of your PM gets it". this way there is no confusion ...

[Bigsampson]

That is a great idea. Everyone knows the rules upfront at that point.

[billy396]

I consider post count as well. If somebody I "know", i.e. A long time member who I have talked a lot with, chimes in at the same time as a very new member does I will sell to the old timer. I have done more than a few transactions here and "in general" newbies have been the ones who say they want something but never really follow through with the deal. Then you have to worry about the funds coming through and being good. I have sold things to members I "know" without even receiving funds prior to me mailing it.

But if somebody is negotiating in good faith I give them first dibs until somebody else says they will take it, then they get one chance to close the deal

While I'm new here as well, I'm gonna +1 here what Sarge said. I'm new here but have sold and bought many things on other sites with this same mentality where I have been part of for 10+ years. Usually before I list something, if I know another member that may be interested, I'd PM them first and give them first crack. Anyway, being new has it drawbacks but everyone starts somewhere. If I don't get something I wanted for whatever reason, it's super easy for me to think it was for a reason and I'm content moving on. I've also "sold" things to members who says "I'll pay later when I get home from work". Pisses me off cause then "later" comes and they ignore me while I have someone else saying they are PP ready or whatever. Don't take it personal, especially when dealing with the amount of money items are here.

As you say, being "new" does have its drawbacks, however, as I've been a member of this forum and many others for many years, I really don't understand the 50-post mark before one can fully participate in the forum. I'm sure that Brian and the Mod's have their reasons, but I work on a computer all day every day and I often don't even boher to turn on my home computer for days at a time. Of course, this has caused me to miss quite a few opportunities to buy things of interest. I have a 25-year plus collection and I reload quite a bit (on my Dillon RL550B). While It seems that Brian is attempting to make this a superior forum (hoping not to be forced to deal with some kid who knows less than even a beginner), I'm far from a beginner and I would most certainly love to be able to spend more time on this and other forums. Alas, life gets in the way. That doesn't make me any less interested or any less experienced. I've never had any problems dealing with people on other forums, I've never been left out in the middle of nowhere for a no-show and, thank God, I've never had to deal with anyone who thought that they might be able to take advantage of me. I hope this continues to be the case. I also hope that it doesn't take me another 5 years to be able to fully participate in the forums.

Edited May 26, 2015 by billy396

[Meyer23]

It's basically so the classifieds don't turn into Craigslist/eBay. Get a bunch of new guys that join, list some super smoking deal, get paid and then bounce. That's why they have a post limit and quite frankly, for as much action as these classifieds see, I'm surprised it's not more. There is a sneaker site (yeah, I know, old hobbies die hard ) that makes you wait 3 months and have 300 posts.

I go against the grain here, and always have, but I feel like any classifieds, members should have to pay; even if it's something small like $20/yr or whatever.

And being new to a forum has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge. Nowadays,there really is no reason to join because you can Google everything!

I lurked here for a while before joining. I, too, sit behind a computer all day at work so when I leave here, I don't touch a computer until I get to work again either.

[TacticalJesus]

New to this forum as well and have bought a few things on here already. It's hard to get your post count up because every question I have I can find in that cool little search thing. So I just read and learn what I can and have learned alot! I have lost a few chances at items because i was asking questions about an them. I know I risk the chance of losing something while I'm doing my research but I bought an AR off here and was in a hurry and didnt ask enough questions and got a bolt with the rifle that was unserviceable and a few other things wrong with it. If you lose out wait a week or two and there will be a better deal anyways from what I've seen on here.

[jbarnett50]

... I've also "sold" things to members who says "I'll pay later when I get home from work". Pisses me off cause then "later" comes and they ignore me while I have someone else saying they are PP ready or whatever. Don't take it personal, especially when dealing with the amount of money items are here.

Wow, out of all the years I've been on here and been through hundreds of transactions, I've only had that happen once, maybe twice. They said they wanted it and then never contacted me back so it's not exactly the same but close. For the most part, I've had better luck here than with other sites that I buy stuff from. The shooting community is pretty tight group with high standards and integrity in general. If you have someone in line and waiting, it's best to give the first potential buyer a timeline to work off of so expectations are known.

In fact, most of the guys on here that I've dealt with before, I will ship stuff as their payment is on the way, even if they tell me they will pay when they get home. Several of the at-work networks block a lot of sites including payment sites sometimes so I understand that. As a buyer, however, I always try to get my payment in ASAP to show the seller I'm serious and build that trust.

I agree with what all you said.

I can easily think of 3-4 times off the top of my head this has happened to me. "I'll take it, money will be sent later." Then l get the item all packed and ready to go and try to get to the PO before they close so I'll message them and ask if they are going to pay, then nothing. Here doesn't really seem like a place to scam or screw around, though. The items I had this issue with were valued anywhere between $200-$600 (as silly as this may sound, it was Jordan shoes and Oakley Glasses - yes I know, but it was a childhood hobby that died hard )but, it's almost too easy to spot people that are "interested" versus someone who is truly interested. But I always try and be fair and give people the benefit of the doubt.

... I've also "sold" things to members who says "I'll pay later when I get home from work". Pisses me off cause then "later" comes and they ignore me while I have someone else saying they are PP ready or whatever. Don't take it personal, especially when dealing with the amount of money items are here.

Wow, out of all the years I've been on here and been through hundreds of transactions, I've only had that happen once, maybe twice. They said they wanted it and then never contacted me back so it's not exactly the same but close. For the most part, I've had better luck here than with other sites that I buy stuff from. The shooting community is pretty tight group with high standards and integrity in general. If you have someone in line and waiting, it's best to give the first potential buyer a timeline to work off of so expectations are known.

In fact, most of the guys on here that I've dealt with before, I will ship stuff as their payment is on the way, even if they tell me they will pay when they get home. Several of the at-work networks block a lot of sites including payment sites sometimes so I understand that. As a buyer, however, I always try to get my payment in ASAP to show the seller I'm serious and build that trust.

I agree, I hope all sellers will hold themselves to the same standards of integrity you seem to have. Communication is a skill many people overlook these days with how easy it is.

Communication is key to me. Especially when dealing in large sums of money; but to me, any amount of money is a lot, or I treat it that way. For example, I CANNOT stand having someones money/payment and still having their item. Like if someone pays after the PO closes, it drives me crazy. Or getting a payment late Saturday and not being able to ship till Monday is worse. I've seriously been told in the past "you don't have to message me your every step, it's cool." I don't like fcuking with people's money to be blunt.