Recoil spring weight Stock 2 vs Limited Pro

[Wesquire]

Left to right is: stock, Wolff full size, Wolff Long slide

[Stician]

Thanks Wesquire

[ny32182]

Very strange... That one on the right doesn't even look like it is long enough to cover the Lim Pro guide rod, assuming they are all leveled at the bottom.

None of my guns would run on a 6lb, I guarantee it. I was replacing 9's every 3-5k, until I went to 10's, still going on my first 10.

[Wesquire]

I wonder if Wolff shipped the wrong one. The package is labeled correctly though

[EngineerEli]

What weights are each spring. The actual spring property come from free length (shown in your picture) but also number of coils, and diameter of the wire itself the springs are made out of. Often the lighter springs will be longer with more coils and thinner wire, while the heavier springs will be shorter with less coils and thicker wire, just saying.

Oh yea, I should disclose, I am an engineer by training and profession, so I chronically over think EVERYTHING! Take what I say with a grain of salt if you so choose

Edited April 22, 2015 by EngineerEli

[Wesquire]

What weights are each spring. The actual spring property come from free length (shown in your picture) but also number of coils, and diameter of the wire itself the springs are made out of. Often the lighter springs will be longer with more coils and thinner wire, while the heavier springs will be shorter with less coils and thicker wire, just saying.

Oh yea, I should disclose, I am an engineer by training and profession, so I chronically over think EVERYTHING! Take what I say with a grain of salt if you so choose

Both wolff springs are 8#.

[Nealio]

None of my guns would run on a 6lb, I guarantee it. I was replacing 9's every 3-5k, until I went to 10's, still going on my first 10.

What issues do you have? And why did you need to replace a 9lb every 3-5k?

[ny32182]

Kind a long story with some low percentage issues I was dealing with starting last summer...

Background: I've used the same mags for EVERYTHING in my now 15 months of shooting Tanfos. Dry fire, live fire, matches, everything. I normally run 147's at 135pf. My dillon powder bar drifts downwards very slowly, maybe 10k rounds for it to drop a tenth on the scale.

With my setup last year, with a new 9lb spring I'd be good until about 3k rounds and then would have intermittent failures to go into battery. Like one every few hundred rounds to start. Top round would strip, just not quite make it all the way to battery. A couple times it wouldn't quite strip all the way, but a tap on the slide would get it moving.

So, I started replacing the 9lb at about 3k rounds... no problems for the rest of the year.

Cut to FL Open this year. I knew I had "excessive" mileage on my recoil spring, and would have changed it, but didn't have an extra, and handn't been having any problems, so decided to let it ride. Also I hadn't tweaked my powder charge for a while, knew it should go back up, but again, stuff had been working 100% in practice, so I decided to let it ride and make tweaks after the match. I was chronoing 130pf right before the match. Unfortunately I had a stage train wreck starting with a new type of malfunction where the old case is ejected, new round is on the way into the chamber, but the round below that one is pushed forward into the feedramp, stopping the slide way out of battery... It never happened before then. I was late in the mag anyway, and in real time feels like the slide locks open... racking it puts you into a double-feed-like situation. It wasn't pretty.

So anyhow, I kind of thought that was the mags; they are worn, original springs, etc, so when I get back, I grab some brand new mags and head to the range... I get the above new kind of malfunction about halfway through every single magazine.

I talked to a friend who has had the opportunity to do a lot of testing with these guns in various setups, and his opinion was that the cause was basically a slide velocity problem in conjunction with the amount of pressure my old mag springs were putting on the stack of rounds in the mag. He recommended a bump back to 135pf and go to a 10lb recoil spring. Done. I had zero issues with this setup, until Area 6, where I had a nice stovepipe that cost some time on a very fast classifier stage, and pretty much wrecked that stage too, but anyway... Always fun to discover new ways to malf at major matches. So far the stovepipe is still a one-off thing, so I'll not worry about it unless it repeats.

I have about 3500 rounds with the 10lb spring, and no failures to go into battery all the way, and none of the second round of the mag going into the feed ramp type failures yet either.

[Nealio]

Do you have marks on the case below the one that gets chambered? This almost sounds like the issue where the slide is catching on the top round in the mag due to a sharp edge.

Also I guess I forgot that all you production guys are running stock mags with that ridiculously stuff mag spring. That may very well be the cause for some of these issues people are seeing. On my extended mags, there is 1/2 or less pressure on the rounds compared to a stock magazine. In fact I would be inclined to cut a coil on those MecGar springs if I were running 9mm production. I ran the stock spring and follower with my extended basepads and my gun ran great for several thousand rounds!

The only reason I keep bringing this up is my Limited gun feels like it runs so much flatter going from a 10# to an 8#. And the open gun I went down to a 6#.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Nealio

[bpipe95]

I had my first stovepipe this past weekend on a "fast" stage, it certainly messed with me a bit.

Im hoping it was a random and one time only thing.

[ny32182]

When the double-feedish thing happens, the only thing pushing the second round forward is friction with the round above it. No marks on the case I'm aware of.

The mag springs have a specific end coil on each side that levels the follower and holds the basepad in place, respectively... Seems like clipping either would be a bad idea?

[Nealio]

When the double-feedish thing happens, the only thing pushing the second round forward is friction with the round above it. No marks on the case I'm aware of.

The mag springs have a specific end coil on each side that levels the follower and holds the basepad in place, respectively... Seems like clipping either would be a bad idea?

Yeah true. I just remember those coils be ridiculously stiff.

[Stician]

Just got my pair of Wolff long slide 9 lb springs. It is longer than full size. Full is 5.3g vs 5.6g

Now we have a monkey wrench in the mix.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Stician

[Wesquire]

Just got my pair of Wolff long slide 9 lb springs. It is longer than full size. Full is 5.3g vs 5.6g

Now we have a monkey wrench in the mix.

I might have been sent the wrong spring. I will call Wolff tomorrow and ask.

[cudaman]

Lim Pro in .40

I had lots of weird issues as mentioned above. The gun was a "GM package" and came with a 7# recoil spring... would never take a round from slide lock... went to a 9#... hit or miss after 300 rounds... now I run a 12# and haven't had a single issue. Brass lands 8-10 feet away.. Load is a snappy 165 gn .40 with Titegroup. Makes 135pf. Just thought I would add, cause all the fluffing and buffing in the world couldn't fix it.. ramp, extractor, etc.etc. etc. It was the spring the whole time.

And just to add another point.. when you boys tear your gun apart... take the slide with the guide rod and spring, see if the guide rod nail head stops at the slide. Some springs are so long that it shortens the stroke.. reliability goes down the drain.

Edited April 28, 2015 by cudaman

[Wesquire]

I just got off the phone with wolff. He said the standard and long slide springs come from the same box. The only difference is that if you order the long slide model, he ships you a 2# heavier spring. So basically if you order an 8# long slide spring, you are getting the same as a 10# standard size.

[EngineerEli]

I just got off the phone with wolff. He said the standard and long slide springs come from the same box. The only difference is that if you order the long slide model, he ships you a 2# heavier spring. So basically if you order an 8# long slide spring, you are getting the same as a 10# standard size.

Thank you for posting those findings, that just saved me so much hassle and confusion. You have broken the long slide vs full size tanfo recoil spring code!

[Nealio]

I just got off the phone with wolff. He said the standard and long slide springs come from the same box. The only difference is that if you order the long slide model, he ships you a 2# heavier spring. So basically if you order an 8# long slide spring, you are getting the same as a 10# standard size.

Well that throws a wrench in everything...

Maybe the Wolff guys should take a science class at the local gradeschool...?

So apparently everything I've told people for the last 5 years is 2#'s off.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Nealio

[EngineerEli]

I think it makes a little more sense after you consider that Wolf sells load-rated recoil springs.

As I posted previously from Wolf's website:

"LOAD-RATED RECOIL SPRINGS are precision springs designed to exact load ratings. The load rating of these springs is determined with the slide in full recoil position."

[Nealio]

I doubt that math comes out correctly.

[praetorian97]

LOL. I gave up this weekend when my 13lb Wolff Hammer springs is popping primers better than my Xtreme 13.8lb that's longer......

[Stician]

Wolff springs vary even from batch to batch. In my Glock days I recall 11 lb pair to feel 2lbs heavier from one set to another. Also something Matt Cheely has mentioned to me as well when we discussed recoil springs he uses in builds. I think the takeaway here is get a pair, see how it works and feel and go from there. I will say the 9 lb Full size felt weak in my Limited Pro and went I replaced it with Long size it felt about right for minor power factor.

I will say is I ordered recoil springs from Last Round Armament as a convenience because I wanted his Xtreme and Henning parts in stock and sear spring. They didn't distinguish the difference between Full and Long. Now they don't even list the part for sale.

Buy from Wolff and this community is the best. I would never have gotten my trigger job done right if it wasn't for all the information shared here.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Stician

[Aric]

What recoil spring do you recommend for a stock II 40sw for minor loads?

[b18prl]

Kind a long story with some low percentage issues I was dealing with starting last summer...

Background: I've used the same mags for EVERYTHING in my now 15 months of shooting Tanfos. Dry fire, live fire, matches, everything. I normally run 147's at 135pf. My dillon powder bar drifts downwards very slowly, maybe 10k rounds for it to drop a tenth on the scale.

With my setup last year, with a new 9lb spring I'd be good until about 3k rounds and then would have intermittent failures to go into battery. Like one every few hundred rounds to start. Top round would strip, just not quite make it all the way to battery. A couple times it wouldn't quite strip all the way, but a tap on the slide would get it moving.

So, I started replacing the 9lb at about 3k rounds... no problems for the rest of the year.

Cut to FL Open this year. I knew I had "excessive" mileage on my recoil spring, and would have changed it, but didn't have an extra, and handn't been having any problems, so decided to let it ride. Also I hadn't tweaked my powder charge for a while, knew it should go back up, but again, stuff had been working 100% in practice, so I decided to let it ride and make tweaks after the match. I was chronoing 130pf right before the match. Unfortunately I had a stage train wreck starting with a new type of malfunction where the old case is ejected, new round is on the way into the chamber, but the round below that one is pushed forward into the feedramp, stopping the slide way out of battery... It never happened before then. I was late in the mag anyway, and in real time feels like the slide locks open... racking it puts you into a double-feed-like situation. It wasn't pretty.

So anyhow, I kind of thought that was the mags; they are worn, original springs, etc, so when I get back, I grab some brand new mags and head to the range... I get the above new kind of malfunction about halfway through every single magazine.

I talked to a friend who has had the opportunity to do a lot of testing with these guns in various setups, and his opinion was that the cause was basically a slide velocity problem in conjunction with the amount of pressure my old mag springs were putting on the stack of rounds in the mag. He recommended a bump back to 135pf and go to a 10lb recoil spring. Done. I had zero issues with this setup, until Area 6, where I had a nice stovepipe that cost some time on a very fast classifier stage, and pretty much wrecked that stage too, but anyway... Always fun to discover new ways to malf at major matches. So far the stovepipe is still a one-off thing, so I'll not worry about it unless it repeats.

I have about 3500 rounds with the 10lb spring, and no failures to go into battery all the way, and none of the second round of the mag going into the feed ramp type failures yet either.

How long you loaded your bullet? I had the same problem in my stock2 I'm using Zero 147 JHP loaded to 1.13" before and it's been giving me the same issue you're discriping so I tried loading it shorter to 1.11" and now it's running 110% now, give it a try and good luck.

[EngineerEli]

I will say is I ordered recoil springs from Last Round Armament as a convenience because I wanted his Xtreme and Henning parts in stock and sear spring. They didn't distinguish the difference between Full and Long. Now they don't even list the part for sale.

LRA actually does now show separate listings for Full Size and Long Slide recoil springs. I believe that is a recent change.

Also, I did some calculations in excel about the 7# LS recoil spring I got from Wolff. YES I AM OVER THINKING THIS, but I enjoy it. It looks like there should only be about a 1# difference between long slide and full size guns. If anyone sees a flaw in my logic point it out.