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mikeor70

Stoeger M3000 FTE?

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I figured I would start a new thread rather than post in the 90+ page "Scattergun" thread. I am having multiple FTE with multiple types of ammo. Here's my vitals...M3000 24", MOA Precision competition package (minus the disconnector), +6 tube, loading port opened. I'm experiencing about a 75% FTE, ammo listed below. I know, manual says 3 dram recommended, I ran some 2.75 because I happened to have them laying around. That said, I am getting FTE with 3 dram as well. I've browsed the threads and did come across Tom's experience of a partially loose mag extension causing some FTE. After about 40 rounds, I noticed mine was loose by about 1/2 turn...still getting FTE after tightening. To clarify, my FTEs are about a 60/40 split of either the spent hull being extracted from the chamber and hanging up on the ejection port or the spent hull still in the chamber. When the hull remains in the chamber, I am able to remove it by removing the new shell on the lifter, cycling the bolt, then the spent hull ejects. In both cases, there is always a new round waiting on the lifter. Fired and un fired shells slide freely in and out of the chamber by hand. I'm hoping mine isn't one that's going to require an M2 extractor right out of the box. All together, I've got just under 200 rounds through it. Nothing appears abnormal on the rim of the spent shells and no noticeable burrs in the chamber. The "ramp" in the barrel where the extractor rides does appear rough, but no burrs on the extractor.

Here's the ammo I was using:

WIN Heavy Lead Load- 3DR , 1 1/8oz, 1200 fps, 7.5 shot - 80% FTE

REM Game Loads- Dram not on box, I'd guess 3DR, 1oz, 1290fps, 7.5 shot - 75% FTE

RIO Target Load- 3DR, 1oz, 1280fps, 8 shot - 95% FTE (I know, RIO)

Estate - 2.75DR, 1 1/8oz, 1145fps, 7.5 shot - 75% FTE (I know, Estate)

FED Target Load - 3DR, 1 1/8oz, 1200fps, 7.5 shot - 80% FTE

FED Multipurpose Load and FED Field and Target worked the "best"- 3DR, 1 1/8oz, 7.5 shot - only about 25% FTE

WIN Super X 2.75" OO- 0% FTE

S&B 3" OO- 0% FTE

So, in hopes of shooting my first TAC Shotgun match tomorrow, today I picked up:

WIN Super X Upland and Small Game- 1 1/8oz, 1255fps, 7.5 shot

Estate heavy Game Load- 1 1/8oz, 3.25DR, 1255fps, 7.5 shot (I know, Estate again, but hoping the 3.25DR will work)

WIN AA Super Sport (clays)- 1 1/8oz, 3.25DR, 1300fps, 7.5 shot

Am I spinning my wheels here fishing for the right ammo? Should I just plan on an M2 extractor? Will the 3.25DR ammo help my FTE enough where I can shoot a match, or back to the drawing board?

I've browsed the threads here a lot and am hoping for a little guidance. Thanks in advance!

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It might just be the break in period. You were also using ammo that's notorious for not cycling in the m3000 as well. Try giving MOA a call and see what they think. If they built it I'm sure they wouldn't mind taking it in to tinker with it and see if there's a problem.

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Thanks punkface. I'm hoping it's a break in as well. To be clear, I purchased and installed The MOA parts.

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If the empty is in the chamber but the next shell is on the lifter ( not trying to feed into the chamber behind the empty), the bolt is not recoiling far enough to eject OR engage the lifter dog. DEFINITELY a short-stroke, rather than an extraction issue. Likely the bolt is opening partway, and then stuffing the empty back in the chamber. You can confirm this by taking video and watching in slo-mo. If you installed the parts yourself, I am guessing you did not polish the magazine tube? It is almost mandatory to remove the machining marks from the mag tube if you want to run ammunition at the bottom end of the power range. Also, during break-in, run the bolt rails and recoil spring WET with oil. It is also a MUST to ensure that the sticky factory grease is removed from all moving surfaces, as it slows the operating parts down significantly.

Of the ammunition you have tried, the Rem 1oz @1290 and the Federal Multipurpose should both run 100%.

If those two are giving extraction issues (as opposed to a short-stroke) it looks different than a short stroke. The empty will either be in the chamber with the next round trying to feed in behind it, or it will be trapped against the top of the receiver with the next round on the lifter pushing up on the bottom of it.

Low-base RIOs and Estate shells have highly variable powder charges, so from one lot to the next they often do not run.

Winchester economy loads have a very rounded rim ( easily visible if compared to a Federal or Remington rim) that makes extraction dicey.

2.75 DRAM ANYTHING will not run reliably.

Of the ammo you just got, the Win AAs are most likely to function 100%. Clean the goo out, run it WET, polish the mag tube if you have time. It should run :)

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One other possibility- The recoil spring occasionally has a burr inside the end where they grind it off. If this burr is dragging up and down the outside of the mag tube it will give short stroke malfunctions. Check both ends of the recoil spring for a burr protruding inward, or longitudinal scratches on the outside of the tube and polish both if necessary.

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Tom, as always, solid advice. I cleaned all of the factory lube out before shooting. I gave the mag tube a polish down to 800 as well. I suspected spring drag on the mag tube as well, but can't see any obvious marks. I will polish the mag tube a bit more and run it with the bolt and rails wet this time. What are your thoughts on running 3.25dr in the meantime?

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The 1300s should run even without the tube polished. Do you have the ability to video the gun cycling? That will be the most telling evidence for the cause of the malfunction. We use video extensively for troubleshooting all types of firearms now, and it is amazing how much you can learn watching everything happen at a hundredth the speed of real-time. Even smartphone video can be helpful.

What was your approach for polishing the tube? Can you post a pic of the final finish you achieved?

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I polished the tube longitudinally starting with 320, 400, 600, then to 800. It seemed to at least knock the machine marks down quite a bit, but not a mirror finish by far. I'll post a pic this evening. I guess I'll go ahead and shoot the match tonight. Fingers crossed. I'll work on getting some video of the cycling. Thank you very much for your insight.

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Thanks Tom. Took your advice and ran it wet as I could get it without it actually dripping. Zero malfunctions with both the WIN super x 1255s or the WIN AA 1300s. I didn't get (have) to run the Rio 1255 3.25dr. Ill post back when i have a chance to try the Rios. I think ill work a bit more on polishing the mag tube. Do they typically need to be ran that wet, or just for break in?

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Only need to keep it wet when breaking it in. After that, a light film on the mag tube and rails is about all that is necessary. Also, greasing the cam pin every couple thousand rounds will make it last forever.

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Have you experimented with removing or trimming back the size of the spacer behind the recoil spring? Just wondering if that would help in cycling lighter loads.

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The new P3K has the spacer shortened as a standard feature. If you remove it altogether the fore end can be moved around. It reduces shell requirements slightly, but not as much as a reduced-power spring would (something else we are looking into ) :)

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The new P3K has the spacer shortened as a standard feature. If you remove it altogether the fore end can be moved around. It reduces shell requirements slightly, but not as much as a reduced-power spring would (something else we are looking into ) :)

Please let me know if you are able to find a reduced power recoil spring. My M3000 has a dual use as a home defense gun as well as for skeet shooting, thus reliability is of utmost importance.

FYI: I have owned my M3000 for over 2 years now and every one of your MOA parts still work flawlessly! Thank you for all of your advice and the quality parts you provide us with.

If you ever start making parts for the Stoeger M3020 (20 gauge) I would be very interested in setting up one in the same manner as my M3000.

Jim

Edited by jfranks64

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The new P3K has the spacer shortened as a standard feature. If you remove it altogether the fore end can be moved around. It reduces shell requirements slightly, but not as much as a reduced-power spring would (something else we are looking into ) :)

How are the new P3K performing with the shortened spacers?

Have there been any issues with the bolt not seating all of the way or issues with chambering a round?

Would you be able to tell us how much material has been removed from the spacer?

Would owners of older model M3000s be able to shorten our spacers to this new measurement without causing any unforeseen issues?

Thanks,

Jim

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Thomas at MOA cleans up the extractor channels on these things, he says its common to find burrs in the channel. Has your bolt release button done anything silly lately?

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