Time for a better blaster

[kimel]

Please forgive me if this sort of question has been beaten into the ground before.  I spent a lot of time searching the enosverse and learned a ton.  Now I need to draw on the collective conscience (enosforce?) for some wisdom.

So, I have been following the adage of "shoot what you got" (which is a Ruger P94DC in .40 SW).  Nice blaster considering what I paid for it but the double-action on the draw is killing me and the long trigger movement to reset in single-action is distracting to say the least.  I don't seem to make the transition from double-action to single-action at speed all that well even after more than a year of mucking about with it.  With other blasters I can do double-action only just fine or single-action only even better...just can't transition well.

I have been pondering various options and now need a bit of advice.  Here are some parameters to consider:

+Cost, within reason, shouldn't be a consideration.  The wife may disagree.  

+This is for Limited/Limited 10.  Only .40 SW need apply.  No, I have nothing against .45 ACP.  I just like the .40 better.  

+Single-stacks do not fit my hands in general, too narrow.  My thumb joint has been abused by too much magnum stuff over the years and many single-stacks I have shot really beat on that to the point where it is painful to shoot them after less than 50 rounds.  Wide-bodies do not cause this problem, even after 300-500 rounds in a day.

+ No IDPA around here and I am not all that interested in it anyway.

+ Not all that interested in going the used route.  Been burned on used guns/cars/etc a few too many times.

+ I am not in Kalibanfornia so that isn't a consideration.

My fear is that I can actually buy too much gun for my skill level.  I have been shooting pistols for 30+ years and have a reasonable skill set in gun handling there.  Only been playing with the IPSC skills for less than a year and still have a LOT to learn.

So, if I go crazy and order an S_I or something of that ilk am I in danger of causing myself problems by buying too much blaster too soon?  Or is this an investment in the future?  You don't transition from go-karts to Formula One overnight afterall.

I was considering the Dawson-Jarret Para 16-40 for awhile.  Then I handled a few Paras today and was not overly impressed by the fit/finish/quality.

Now I see that Dawson has the Practical Advantage 2011 on sale and that looks REAL tempting as does the STI Edge, also on sale these days.

Any advice other than "use the enosforce Luke"?  

Cheers!

Kevin

[Loves2Shoot]

I think you would be fine with a wide body .40 (STI, SV, Para) the gun is NOT what makes a shooter in this sport, and I seriosuly doubt your current gun is holding you back as much as you would like to believe. I have seen some good shooters do well with el cheapo guns.

I don't think the race car analogy fits with IPSC. The guns all shoot about the same (1911's) and plastic guns with decent triggers get the job done too. There is someone who makes a wide grip for the single stack, it is supposed to make it feel like a widebody, might be a cheaper alternatice for you, maybe someone else knows the link.

The guns have decent resale, and no "stock" Para's will measure up to a "stock" STI/SV, but you can buy 2 Para's for one STI/SV. Dawson seems to make good stuff, and I think his prices seem great. Good luck!

[BSeevers]

I have seen hundreds, yes hundreds I have shot a while, buy a racegun and quit. Some quit before they have even shot it. I have also seen a people buy a racegun and start winning matches in 6 months. Its up to you and you desire to achieve your goals. Will a $2500 STI make you win. Absolutly not. Do you need one to shoot better. Sure its more accurate, better trigger and smoother than what you gotand you will shoot it better. The differences are not that extreme though and you will need practice practice practice practice to become an excellent shooter and win with any gun.

Only buy a .40 if you want to shoot Limited. If you already had a double stack .45 shoot it but since you can choose, choose .40 for the capacity advantage.

These guns last a LOOONG time so I personally would buy the best to be ready for the future. You know trophys and such I understand used bothers you but a good pistolsmith can fix anything. Buying a used gun from or with a good pistolsmith is an option.

PS My brand new SVI Limited was given to my smith right away. They still need tuned up. At least for me.

[kimel]

Thanks for the replies.  I do want to move out of the DA first shot arena.  The time it takes me to load the trigger and get off that first shot seems like forever.  I am sure it is only a couple 1/10ths but it has become a serious distraction.

In dry fire with targets at 15 feet (what I can get in my garage).   I draw and fire DA vs draw and fire SA.  To do the SA I have to draw with the blaster cocked.  No manual safety on this one.  The SA felt much smoother and lightyears faster.  Maybe it is a confidence thing.

I have trained myself over the past few months to load the DA trigger as I push toward the target but that seems to distract me even more...probably because I am "thinking" about it.

For a reason that I have yet to fully comprehend, when I transition from DA to SA I put the DA shot where I want it and then the first SA shot about 4-5 inches to the right and up about 3-4 inches.  This is consistent.  When I try this at speed, just reindexing from the last shot, I will put a nice tight group around the second shot...which is usually in the C zone.  I can't detect that I am changing my grip during the transition so it almost has to be a trigger control thing.  I don't do the same thing with a DA revolver, just shoot nice groups.  No, not interested in IPSC with a revolver.  

I am not stupid/brave enough to try drawing my blaster cocked (no safety remember) and shooting a string at speed to see what happens.  I can shoot a SA string without the draw and I shoot groups.

So, maybe the question should be: should I just buy a quality widebody (SA, STI, etc) and then build it up over time as various aspects start holding me back or should I just go for it and get a good, solid blaster and not spend the time and $$$ building it up over time.  I am not aware of a decent smith locally, although there is probably one around...I just don't know about them, yet.  Lots of smiths that do wonderful work on sporting rifles but none that do 1911 work that I would trust.

My goals are to challenge myself to be as good as I can be.  Not really concerned with winning matches...at least not yet.  I am only competing with myself at this point.

I would be interested in the link to the wide-body grips if anyone has it.

Cheers!

Kevin

(Edited by kimel at 8:12 am on Dec. 31, 2002)

[Loves2Shoot]

Kimel,

If you buy a basic SV/STI it should do you well for a long time, no mods needed. You might try a Caspian, although I HATE Caspian mags.

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/1911_grips/index.html  This is the link to the grip.

(Edited by Loves2Shoot at 8:39 am on Dec. 31, 2002)

[shred]

Dawson guns are ready to rock right out of the box, but there'll probably be a wait to get one, same as other 'smiths.  You can probably get a factory STI or SV pretty quick, and they should work out of the box with only a little break-in.

It is possible to buy 'too much gun' for a new shooter, but those are typically super-light Open guns with lots of holes and 1lb trigger.   For a Limited gun, go with a "normal" IPSC STI/SV/Para configuration and you'll be fine.  Once you get the feel of it, you can start thinking about modifying it.

(Edited by shred at 11:34 am on Dec. 31, 2002)

[Chriss Grube]

The Dawson gun is a hell of a deal at the price he has listed. I got one last year. It is excellent right out of the box. The accuracy is outstanding and it is 100%. The new gun won't make you TGO or TJ but you will shoot a lot better than with the Ruger. Contary to what some say the gun can make a difference, if not we'd all be shooting a jennings right?

[Flexmoney]

kimel,

Nothing wrong with getting a better gun.  Go for it.

Let me ask you this though...

Do you "see"  that the shots you are now shooting are going out of the center?  As you shoot them?  Are you calling those shots?

A better gun will be easier to learn to shoot well...but, I (personnally) couldn't let that crappy trigger get the best of me.  

Matt Burkett has some grip & stance advice in his "tips" section on his website.  Brian's book will do wonders.  And this comment:

The time it takes me to load the trigger and get off that first shot seems like forever.

...that may be a "where is your focus" thing.  Brian talks about this on Burkett's tapes/DVD's.

[Jon Merricks]

I went from a Single Stack to a Para to a S-I all in one season.  I would say that if your going to be in it for the long hall save up your dollars and buy the best.  I almost bought a factory gun and would suggest just that if you might think of resale.  I was not, so I went and bought the best parts (IMHO) and went to best gunsmith in driving distance.  Good Luck and lets us know how it goes.  Oh yea save a couple of hundred for gear (holster,etc).

[warpspeed]

Kevin,

I do live in CA and last year I was limited to what I could get. I chose a STI Edge in 40 S&W and have been very happy with it. I have done 3 (more or less) mods - cleaned up the trigger, replaced extractor with an AFTEC &  added a fiber optic sight.  The trigger had a mile of creep, I wanted the AFTEC and I just wanted to try the FO sight.

I have heard that SVI makes a good "factory" gun too so if you like the look of one, I would think that would be fine . There are quite a few reseller out there that cater to the IPSC crowd. I like Speed Shooters Intl.

http://www.speedshooter.com

Dawson also sells the STI factory guns at great prices and could probably clean up the trigger for you.

IMHO, If you have the $'s, I do not think that you could "buy too much gun" for your skill level. Look at it this way, unless you like to collect things, you won't need buy another gun for awhile.

[Ron Ankeny]

Assuming you have the financial resources and won't have "buyer's remorse" get the gun you want. I somewhat subscribe to the notion that a realy great shooter can do well with about anything, but the fact is a good S_I will be much easier to learn to shoot well than your Ruger.

I guess I am doing things bassakwards. I sold my SVI .40 and went back to a single stack 1911 in .45. It's a personal thing I guess. I wanna make Limited Master and L10 Master with a real man's pistol, lol.

[Duane Thomas]

"....but the double-action on the draw is killing me and the long trigger movement to reset in single-action is distracting to say the least.  I don't seem to make the transition from double-action to single-action at speed all that well even after more than a year of mucking about with it.  With other blasters I can do double-action only just fine or single-action only even better...just can't transition well."

The transition from the first to second shots is the art and science of DA auto pistol shooting. It's not that hard. Have you been dry firing intensively? You really do need to, to master any gun.

To practice the DA/SA transition with a DA auto, dry fire, start with the gun aimed in. Smoothly stroke the DA trigger. Staight to the rear, one smooth, continuous motion. HOLD THE TRIGGER TO THE REAR. Hand cycle the slide to recock the trigger. Reacquire your two-handed grip. Then SLOWLY let the trigger return forward until you feel it click. Take up any slack (if applicable) and prep the SA trigger with almost enough pressure to drop the hammer but not quite. Apply that last little bit of pressure to drop the hammer. Repeat several thousand times.

What you're doing here is ingraining in your muscle memory the DA to SA transition, how much you have to let the trigger go forward to hit the trigger reset point - but no further - how much pressure you can apply to the trigger before it breaks. Continue dry firing. Over the days and weeks, start making the interval you hold the trigger to the rear after cycling the slide shorter and shorter. Eventually you're going to be hitting the trigger reset and prepping the trigger WHILE cycling the slide. This is what you want to happen while live firing. By the time the gun is down out of recoil, you've got the trigger reset, prepped and you're half a pound away from firing the next shot.

Now to live fire. Do the exact same thing (only now you don't have to hand the action between shots, of course.) One DA shot, hold the trigger to the rear while you follow-though on your sights, then slowly let the trigger go forward until it resets, take up any slack if necessary, prep the trigger, fire the shot. As time goes by, start making the interval you hold the trigger to the rear shorter and shorter. Eventually, by the time the gun is down out of recoil after the first DA shot, you've go the triger reset, reprepped, and the next shot breaks.

You CAN keep the first two shots on a DA gun together. Yes, it's a more challenging system than either a straight SA or straight DA gun because with those you only have to master one type of trigger pull. My personal opinion: to be really good with a DA auto is three times as challenging as straight DA or SA because you've got to master THREE things: good DA technique for the first shot, good SA technique for all subsequent shots AND you have to able to instantly transition between the two. Really, if you're shooting a DA auto, at LEAST half your practice time, both dry and live fire, should be spent mastering the transition between the first and second shots.

There's no reason you can't kick ass on just about anyone in Production, armed with your Ruger. And when you do, people will be IMPRESSED.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 11:28 pm on Jan. 1, 2003)

[kimel]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the great advice.  

Good dry-fire idea DT.  I will start to work on that this evening during my daily dry-fire session.

I spent a bit of time between rain/snow showers and getting blown around in wind (I am not a fair weather only shooter) at the range and paid a lot of attention to front sight and calling shots between the DA and SA shots.  The Ruger, with my grip, recoils up and twists to the left.  I started to think that this was reponsible for pulling follow-up shots to the right.  

Then I noticed that between the DA and SA shots that I was repositioning my trigger finger slightly from pad to knuckle and pulling the barrel to the right as I took up the slack!  AH HA!  Spent awhile working on this and the up and to the right second shots went away for the most part.  Cool!  Not sure where this stupid habit came from but need to eradicate it.

Yes, I am reading BE's book and I have Matt's DVDs.  Both are so full of info it is going to take awhile to absorb all of it...like maybe years.  Oh well...I like a challenge.

My Ruger is no longer legal for Production.  I couldn't handle the factory grips (literally, those things flat out suck) so put on Hogue's and changed out the sites to adjustables.  As neither option is available from the factory, this one is now a Limited-10 blaster...at least according to how I read the rules.

Thanks for reminding me about $$$ for a new holster.  I had put this thought out of my mind as the Ruger won't live in any of the nifty holsters out there so I had been using a modified Uncle Mike's.

That reminded me to price mags...ack!  I was kind of used to $20 for a mag for the Ruger....

Thanks again for all the great advice!  The Enosverse is such a great resource.

Cheers!

Kevin

[Loves2Shoot]

Ron,

I'm with you, shooting L10 for a season or 2 and gonna kick butt against those carrying 20+ rounds, just like TGO and Travis (it is ok to dream) Actually I think it will be a good switch from open, make it fun again, more to do during a stage (all those reloads)

[Rich Bagoly]

In Production, you can change the sights, as long as they are still notch and post.  Adjustables should be OK.  You can put griptape, or a grip sock on the Ruger grips, and be good to go in Production.

If that matters.

[spook]

Flex said:"...."but, I (personnally) couldn't let that crappy trigger get the best of me.... "

I'm with Flex. You can always get a better gun. If you want it, go for it. But I would use it and practice with it until I could kick everybody's @ss with it.

Do you know how much fun it is to kick ass with a cheap gun?

[Duane Thomas]

I used to do it with a G19 I bought direct from Glock, and for which I paid the princely sum of $308 brand-new.

[kimel]

Well, the decision was made late this week.  

I decided to go the way of the Dawson-Jarrett Para 16-40 and am having Dawson do some extra work on it.  Swapping the magwell for the ICE, trigger job, lo-pro mag release button and so on.  Dawson goes through these and does some "tweaking and tuning" so they are a bit beyond a stock Para.

I spent quite a bit of time on the phone talking to Paul at Dawson's and am very happy with the way he answered my questions (I had a longggg list).  To be fair, one of the stock Paras I handled was a used specimen and that may have had a LOT to do with its condition internally.  I didn't realize this until I went back to look at it again and noticed the lower price and the word "used" on the price tag.

In the end I couldn't justify the extra $$$ to go with a full-out custom blaster.  This left me with some cash for a new holster, mags, etc.  Would be a bummer to try and shoot Limited10 with a single mag...those reloads would kill the time.  

Bad news is that they were out of stock so I have a few weeks to wait.  

Meanwhile, I continue to practice with the Ruger and will shoot at least one more match with it next weekend.  That happens to be one of my carry guns so I am motivated to overcome the DA/SA transition anyway.  Plus, I can always use it for IDPA if any of that ever hits my local area and I get the urge.

I can always go for the full custom job next time around.  

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful suggestions and advice!

Cheers!

Kevin

[Jon Merricks]

I'm sure you will be happy with what your getting from Dawson.  He can also hook you up on some TUNED STI/Para mag tubes.  

[kimel]

Thanks for the advice Jon.  I did chat with Dawson's about mags and they said they could fix me up but I didn't take it further than that at the time.  I will be sure to ask for the TUNED STI mags.

Cheers!

Kevin

[kimel]

Well, the new blaster is here!  Picked it up this morning and then headed to the range.  A quick check and then it was time to load up and see what happened.

I ran about 250 rounds through it.  The Para naturally points better for me than the Ruger does and the group sizes are fairly tight, even at speed.

The optical fiber site REALLY made a huge difference (0.090 size).  Makes it real easy to call shots.  The extra inch on the site radius helps a lot too.

Splits have dropped by at least 1/3.  Hard to say for sure as my times kept dropping as I got used to the gun until I ran out of ammo.

In short...was it worth the money?  Oh yeah!

Now if only those other mags would show up....range work with a single mag blows.

Cheers!

Kevin

[warpspeed]

kevin,

thanks for the update. It is great to hear that someone other than me is having fun

[Jon Merricks]

Thats great Kevin.  Always love hearing about a new blaster.