phecksel Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Don't think I've ever run into this. Picked up some brass at the IDPA, and as I'm sorting brass, ran into three or so 9mm brass with no primer. Since these went straight into my "range bag" which was completely empty before the competition, I'm 99.99% sure this somehow didn't come from my stock. The brass looks perfectly normal, and doesn't appear to be reloaded. I have no idea how primers would not be present in shot brass. 2nd wierd one, primer appears to not even be struck, but literally almost wiped/smeared flat. I have two of these. May take one and throw it in the gun and see if it's still live, but it was empty brass??? !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The second one sounds like way over pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 There is probably someone shooting an over pressured load in your club. The primer pockets could have worked so loose that the spent primer just fell out. That's my guess anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesm Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The filled in primer indentation can be seen on cases with normal pressure that had a soft primer and were fired in a Beretta 92. Most 92's I have seen have a camphor milled out around the firing pin hole on the surface of the breech face. This seems to often cause primer flow that will fill the indentation. My 92 will do it with S&B small pistol primers in a normal pressure load. Over pressure loads can do it in about any gun. In your case given some "missing" primers the above post by b1gcountry is most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If I see a case without a primer I use a go/no go gauge to verify that the primer pocket hasn't swollen to the point it won't hold a new primer. I use the Ballistic Tools "Swage Gage Primer Pocket Gauge". Here's a link: http://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket The second scenario is normally a 9mm Major load. In some cases it's a combination of a softer primer (Federal) with a very high power factor load that cause the primers to look like this. The main issue with cases shot at these power factors is that it wears out the primer pockets. Again, the go/no go swage gauge is used to verify that the primer pocket will hold a primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The smeared primer sounds like a 9mm S&W M&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 the brass doesn't seem to exhibit any other signs of over pressure... and why in the world would someone shoot over pressured loads at an IDPA? I'm trying to get right down to the minimum PF. Unfortunately, I didn't set them all aside, only kept the last one I came across. They don't look like a reloads... not that I can really tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What head stamp do they have? I ran acrossed some at the range last week that looked the same as you described. They were a brand that I have never heard of. Some of them had pierced primers and smeared primers but none missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Missing primer - FC Smeared primer - Blazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I ran across a strange case this weekend, was sorting brass and saw a black one. I figured it was steel cased something, but before I threw it in the trash, I looked at the headstamp and it was WIN 9mm LUGER??? Got the magnet, non magnetic. The black was shiny, but I scraped a bit off and it looked to be nickel plated underneath. I did a Google search and found a report on Hornady making black brass for a promotion, but that was it. I suspect this was the same thing by Winchester. Maybe it's for those evil black rifles, really tacti-cool? Anyway, it will go on the shelf of "oddities" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 If you wet tumble too long with too much vinegar, the brass turns black. That is probably what happened (or something similar, acid rain, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accu9 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 You definitely picked up some 9 major brass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 It could be one super hot loading, or a series of loadings up at max. With rifle brass at least, the primer pocket definitely has a lifespan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 It could be one super hot loading, or a series of loadings up at max. With rifle brass at least, the primer pocket definitely has a lifespan. Pistol primer pockets definitely have a lifespan as well a rifle. Federal and Blazer brass in 9mm has pretty loose primer pockets from the start and do eventually wear out; especially if they're loaded to high power factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The black brass is from a WIN tactical load. I don't recall which one it is or was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Hornady also has the black brass in some of their "serious"-ly tacti-cool ammo like TAP and such. Edited April 15, 2015 by wgj3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Their Critical Duty is nickel so you can see it when you chamber check in the dark. I swear some of these little additives/niceties change with whatever new trick is in vogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I've had primers fall out of my loaded rounds before. Years ago I was at a match, I used to put my reloaded rounds in a zip lock baggie. I picked up the bag and noticed what looked like dirt in the bottom. It was unburned powder, I also noticed a couple of loose primers on the bottom too. They had just fallen out of the pocket. I remembered during loading that a few went in easy, too easy... Hasn't happened since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock26Toter Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I shoot 9mm major and smeared primers is fairly common. When I started shooting my brass more than once, had many primers fall out during the match. I had a few missing from picked up brass to start with and then when I had a few jams I stopped. Now I recycle my brass at the metal recycler and only shoot once fired. No issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruleyoutoo1911 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I usually inspect my brass, and toss any with flattened or pierced primers into the recycle bucket. I was priming some 9mm brass a few nights ago, and ran into some brass where the primer fell right back out as I seated it. It was marked L Y 93, looked it up and it appears to be Norinco brass. It looked pretty clean and I didn't notice any flattened primers in it while I was resizing, so it may have just been out of spec brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This is some info I have collected: Bad brass: aguila - brass alloy forms ring near head after repeated reloading. Causes case head separation. A Merc - Bad quality metal Ammoload - interior ledge. Case head separation IMT - Interior ledge case head separation. L Y (Norinco China) - Primer pockets too lose Para (Norinco China) - loose primer pockets Triangle(Norinco China) - case head failures Thick cases: CBC (Brazil) - Hard to resize. Thick case walls Tight or crimped primer: FC NT HRTRS NATO S.B. WCC Win NT Good brass: Armscor Blazer FC GFL (Fiocci) HPR *I* (Independence - Speer) PMC RP RWS Speer WIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now