More problems, What are the odds...

[jtrump]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

[GrumpyOne]

Try some stronger mag springs?

[Sarge]

What's going on is you got lucky with a gun that doesn't lock back! Most competitors don't want the slide to lock back on their guns. Many spend time and or money setting their guns up to not lock back. It's always better than the alternative of locking back prematurely.

My guess is a combination of new guns, not enough lube until well broken in, too strong a recoil spring, loads etc.

Edited to add if it's two new guns with the same problem chances are it's something other than the guns fault

Edited April 8, 2015 by Sarge

[wgj3]

Any chance you are hitting the slide release with your digits keeping it from moving up to lock the slide back?

[Rob Tompkins]

Captain Obvious checking but you’ve confirmed you weak hand thumb is not riding the slide stop? Also, you don’t have a thumb dragging on the slide preventing it from going back far enough to give the time to engage and activate the slide lock?

The only common dominator I see in your original post is you and your grip. I’d look hard at that. Have others watch it closely as you shoot.

Your load & recoil spring combo should balance well enough but you could try a lighter recoil spring and see if that helps any – it would allow the slide to stay in recoil just a tad longer.

[robertg5322]

Two guns, two manufacturers, same issue leads me to believe there's something you're doing that's causing the issue.

Have someone video you from different angles while shooting to try and pinpoint what's going on. Focus on hand position during recoil.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect your thumb is migrating toward and around the slide stop while firing, but that's only a guess.

[jtrump]

I know some people that do not want their guns to slide lock, interesting.

I keep the guns very clean and well lubricated, I clean them extensively after every practice session about 200 rounds.. This STI probably only has 400 rounds through it at the moment. I was actually thinking it may be the recoil spring, when running a 14lb spring, I sometimes have loads literally dribble out and roll 1ft away from me.

As far as stronger mag springs? I don't know I've got brand new chip power mags, and Tripp cobra mags.. My para would slide lock using any magazine including 5 yr old heavily used wilson mags that never saw a new spring.

No chance I'm hitting the slide release, I tested for that :*(....

Let it break in more? Keep a round count in my head while trying to focus on everything else in a stage?

[jtrump]

I will re-assess my grip on the gun.

Funny side note with the spring field is if I held upward pressure on the bottom of the magazine when pulling the trigger for the last round it would always slide lock. Possibly because I wasn't gripping the gun like I typically do when shooting..

I've just never had this issue with any of the other 1911's I own and have shot extensively SA LOADED, and Para blackops 1911.

[Rob Tompkins]

The shape / size of the slide stop could cause a problem on one gun and not the other. A lot of shooters don't like any kind of extended slide stop on any kind of gun for that reason.

[GrumpyOne]

I have a SA Trophy Match. Never an issue with it not locking back. It took a good 1,200 to 1,500 rounds to get it broken in though. Shoot it till it jams, clean it, then do it again. Stop cleaning every 200 rounds. The Trophy Match guns are notoriously tight when new.

[Dustint21]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

I just spoke with our warranty department. They remember your phone call very well. I know we offered to bring the Trojan back and address the issue. If you change your mind please let us know.

Thanks

Dustin

Edited April 8, 2015 by Dustint21

[Sarge]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

I just spoke with our warranty department. They remember your phone call very well. I know we offered to bring the Trojan back and address the issue. If you change your mind please let us know.

Thanks

Dustin

Busted.

[Corey]

Have you tried cycling the gun with live ammo (in a safe place like shooting range ) or dummies? Will it cycle them and then lock back when you are pulling the slide with your hand? If it locks back then but not when you are firing, then its something with you/your grip.

[jtrump]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

I just spoke with our warranty department. They remember your phone call very well. I know we offered to bring the Trojan back and address the issue. If you change your mind please let us know.

Thanks

Dustin

Busted.

Busted for what? If by getting hung up on because you sound like a sad individual, who isn't helpful, who's mannerism is not fitting to his job description and I hang up the pone on him, then by all means, I AM BUSTED " EDIT: I am by no means bashing all of STI customer support just to let everyone know, I just had a particularly unhelpful instance and wanted to vent"

I'm going to take the gun back out to the range this evening and see if I can maybe just adjust my grip look at, load a round or two, look at it again and then break the shot off and see if I get a different outcome. This slide release is fairly small It's deff not over sized but I could be hitting it, I won't rule it out. The thing that stood out the most to me was

two different guns two different manufactures, maybe it is me. I don't have a lighter recoil spring sitting around lower then 14lbs... Not sure what to do there.

Both the TM and STI are tight tight tight, It's just I feel like I'm neglecting the things If i don't clean them every 200 rounds.. I guess it's just what I've always done. especially with reloads I'm using w231 so it's not the worst powder in the world but it gets pretty dirty in there after a few hundred rounds.

Thanks for the thoughts and insight guys, and to Dustin from STI I will keep that in mind thank you.

Edited April 8, 2015 by jtrump

[wgj3]

Get someone else to shoot them too. Easy way to take you out of the equation.

[Sarge]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

I just spoke with our warranty department. They remember your phone call very well. I know we offered to bring the Trojan back and address the issue. If you change your mind please let us know.

Thanks

Dustin

Busted.

Busted for what? If by getting hung up on because you sound like a sad individual, who isn't helpful, who's mannerism is not fitting to his job description and I hang up the pone on him, then by all means, I AM BUSTED " EDIT: I am by no means bashing all of STI customer support just to let everyone know, I just had a particularly unhelpful instance and wanted to vent"

I'm going to take the gun back out to the range this evening and see if I can maybe just adjust my grip look at, load a round or two, look at it again and then break the shot off and see if I get a different outcome. This slide release is fairly small It's deff not over sized but I could be hitting it, I won't rule it out. The thing that stood out the most to me was

two different guns two different manufactures, maybe it is me. I don't have a lighter recoil spring sitting around lower then 14lbs... Not sure what to do there.

Both the TM and STI are tight tight tight, It's just I feel like I'm neglecting the things If i don't clean them every 200 rounds.. I guess it's just what I've always done. especially with reloads I'm using w231 so it's not the worst powder in the world but it gets pretty dirty in there after a few hundred rounds.

Thanks for the thoughts and insight guys, and to Dustin from STI I will keep that in mind thank you.

There is quite difference in STI offering to work on the gun and what you initially seemed to imply. If you are not convinced by now that the gun is fine just send it in like they suggested.

Also, from one of your other posts it seems you took these brand new guns to a match? That is NOT the place to try out a new gun . They need at least 1000 rounds ran through them prior to trusting them.

As for cleaning every two hundred rounds, if that is what you prefer to do, then go for it. I MAYBE clean mine every 5-6 matches or when it starts acting up.

[motosapiens]

Get someone else to shoot them too. Easy way to take you out of the equation.

Yep, that's the first thing I would do. I've had new guns that wouldn't lock back once in a while because the slide stop was tight. problem went away.

[jtrump]

I have not started shooting matches yet, these are the guns I do Intend to take to matches, I have a bit of practice I would like to work on before jumping straight into SS competition. The TM has 800rds in it and the STI has about 3-400 with no failures to feed/fire my reload. It likes anything over 1.245-1.255 not very picky.

Sorry if my implications of their customer service was off putting, I guess if I mentioned that he hated his life/job/having a bad day but hey he did offer me the opportunity to send a gun back to them then I guess that affords him the benefit of the doubt?

No more about their service department, I'm sure there are many good people working there with pleasant attitudes and maybe this guy was just having a bad day, regardless I'll be going to the range this evening after the gym and it cools down some to do some testing.

Will report back.

[Sarge]

Drench them in oil and Fire the bejesus out of them.

[racknrider]

I had this problem with my RO but I was the cause.

[Corey]

As far as practicing before an actual competition, if you can be safe I'd just go to the match. You'll find out at a match what you really need to practice on your own

[ArrDave]

As far as practicing before an actual competition, if you can be safe I'd just go to the match. You'll find out at a match what you really need to practice on your own

This.

The things you think are really important and you need to practice may not be what you actually need to practice.

[bountyhunter]

So brand new SA Trophy match on it's way back to the factory because it would only slide lock manually, run the gun out of bullets and the slide would not lock to the rear.

Tried many different magazines, egw high cut mag release, ed brown mag release, gunsmith filing and some other odds and ends he tried nothing worked.

I bought an STI Trojan, love the gun fantastic shooter feels better in my hands than the trophy match, Now same exact problem.. it slide locks once every blue moon with a chip power mag, it will not lock to the rear with a tripp cobra magazine.

14lb recoil spring shooting 200g swc that are 170-172ish PF, switched to a 16lb recoil spring and tried to run some factory ammo through it with the same result.

Bone stock it would not slide lock with the sti supplied magazine, Currently I have the dawson ice no gap mag well on there, and I have the base pads from dawson for the chip and tripp mag sets which are all but brand new...

I can put in an empty magazine and rack it the slide locks to the rear every single time... the follower goes right into place on the slide release... I just spoke to someone from sti, the guy basically seemed like he hated his life, didn't want to be at work and simply didn't even want to take the time to maybe try to point me in the right direction.

what the hell is going on?

My Trojan did that when new. So did my SIG 226. After I broke the guns in, problem disappeared.

You can try going down a couple of pounds on the recoil spring until the gun breaks in.

Also, need a very strong grip to reduce this as it maintains maximum slide velocity.

ADD: does the slide stop on the Trojan have the "slot" in the face to catch the detent ball? I just fitted a new aftermarket slide stop and that stupid slot was keeping it from locking back. The stock one on my Trojan did not, but that can make it reluctant to lock.

Edited April 8, 2015 by bountyhunter

[jtaylor996]

Step one is to understand how the slide stop works. The mag follower has a tab that engages the slide stop. This tab has to stick out more than the nose of the rounds used, as those rounds have to pass by the slide stop without touching it.

Have you looked at the gun with the mag and slide stop installed, but the slide itself off? From there you can see how much contact there is between the follower and the slide stop. In some cases you may need to bend that follower tab up for it to engage the slide stop.

If all of that looks good, then that really only leaves your technique as the cause.

[jtrump]

Have not looked in the trojan with the slide off to see how much I'm getting on the follower... Im shooting a 200g swc, with all the crimps from .469/.470 I would assume the bullets are going by without contact, or that would indicate the early dreaded slide lock.

I'll pull it apart and check to see how much of that follower is getting in contact with the slide stop. I will note that my slide stop is SUPER SUPER TIGHT.. like when putting the gun back together the only way to get it to go back in is by getting everything in place and then hitting it lightly with a rubber mallet, you would need super human finger strength to do it by hand. I've got a great grip and hand strength and It makes me look like a girl.