Practiscore iOS vs. Android differences

[Jim Norman]

Biker, that is 98% exactly what we do. Only difference is that we have people sign up for the match online and import that. We just now started using a new program from one of our members that allows us to squad as well. We are cautiously optimistic that squadding will work, the first run through saved us probably an hour and it certainly saved a lot of aggravation on my part. Time will tell if that was a fluke,

.At this point if I were to be told I had to go back to paper and EzWin I think I'd quit as Stats.

[wgnoyes]

yes, the iOS version can upload produce both results for practiscore.com (neither version does it for uspsa.org yet) and the activity reporting file.

Not sure about the classifier question. I define the stages in ezws, register folks there and then export to the master iPad. Exporting back from iOS to a new empty match file seems to get the classifiers recognized as such in ezws. I don't use the android version for a master, so I don't know if it would be different for that. (I do treat both as two completely different animals with different features that happen to have the same product name, which is an admittedly odd situation.)

I'm pretty sure it should work even on an original iPad with those versions. I think others are already doing that, as I recall.

Sorry, I'm pretty new to match management (to a point where I have to read the rulebook again before each match), what do you mean by "iOS version can upload produce both results for practiscore.com"?

In EzWS I can generate the "webfile.txt" which is essentially the match results and the <club code>-<date>.txt which is the club activity report (the one which requires payment to HQ). Can iOS version generate and store on internal memory both files?

I'll need to wait for my *iPod* (sadly no iPad) to charge before I can try iOS PractiScore on it.

Both the android and apple versions can create AND upload match results to practiscore.com, which include combined results. The apple upload gives you additional linking features in the resulting webpage that the android version does not.

ONLY the apple version can create the upload file for MATCH RESULTS to upload to uspsa.org. USPSA results do not include combined results.

ONLY the apple version can create the upload file for club activity reporting, to be uploaded to uspsa.org. YOU then have to get that file over to a computer for actual uploading.

Edited May 30, 2015 by wgnoyes

[bikerburgess]

yes, the iOS version can upload produce both results for practiscore.com (neither version does it for uspsa.org yet) and the activity reporting file.

Not sure about the classifier question. I define the stages in ezws, register folks there and then export to the master iPad. Exporting back from iOS to a new empty match file seems to get the classifiers recognized as such in ezws. I don't use the android version for a master, so I don't know if it would be different for that. (I do treat both as two completely different animals with different features that happen to have the same product name, which is an admittedly odd situation.)

I'm pretty sure it should work even on an original iPad with those versions. I think others are already doing that, as I recall.

Sorry, I'm pretty new to match management (to a point where I have to read the rulebook again before each match), what do you mean by "iOS version can upload produce both results for practiscore.com"?

In EzWS I can generate the "webfile.txt" which is essentially the match results and the -.txt which is the club activity report (the one which requires payment to HQ). Can iOS version generate and store on internal memory both files?

I'll need to wait for my *iPod* (sadly no iPad) to charge before I can try iOS PractiScore on it.

Both the android and apple versions can create AND upload match results to practiscore.com.

NEITHER version can create the upload file for MATCH RESULTS to upload to uspsa.org.

ONLY the apple version can create the upload file for club activity reporting, to be uploaded to uspsa.org. YOU then have to get that file over to a computer for actual uploading.

Weird we have been uploading match results files to USPSA generated on a I device for months now,

[wgnoyes]

MATCH results? You sure you're not confusing that with activity credit reporting?

Excuse me. You're right. It's there. (It didn't used to be.) My mistake. But android can't do it.

Edited May 30, 2015 by wgnoyes

[euxx]

Actually, Android CAN do a lot of things.

The feature you are referring to hasn't been implemented in the PractiScore app for Android. And it also doesn't really have to be implemented, if USPSA would take the lead and implement a direct import from the PraciScore match data for USPSA own web site.

Unfortunately it is been going like that for over a year now...

[wgnoyes]

Well... contact USPSA on that one. Their position on it is that they absolutely insist they own and hold match results on their servers, rather than pull data from a 3rd-party vendor. Regardless, since it's been added to the iOS version already, there's really no reason I can fathom for it not to also be added to the android version, don't you agree?

[euxx]

Well, I don't have to agree. Results are available for USPSA to take and been available for a long time. What you are saying is like we owe to bring results to USPSA on a gold platter and USPSA expect that to happen automatically. So, USPSA can collect the match activity fees without lifting a finger. The way I look at it - if you own them, they are there, take them whenever you want (it is not even a rocket science).

Now, you feel free to contact USPSA, NROI, club liaison and your Area and Section directors and tell them your position on this. Personally, I yet to see USPSA organisation and its officers and executives to demonstrate actual support of PractiScore project (in any form).

This is, of course, my personal view and Ken and others can have their own opinions.

In reality, there is a huge list of feature requests and bug reports and we have to prioritize.

[wgnoyes]

It's a debatable point, of course. I already agree with USPSA's position on ownership of match data.

No support in any form? Really? The Nationals has been scored with Practiscore for two years now. That sounds like "support" to me. Adoption by the USPSA BoD as an official scoring program also sounds like "support". Very significant support, in fact.

I do totally understand and agree with prioritizing feature requests and bug reports. Bug reports especially, and I'll be the first to acknowledge it seems there has been much progress in quality control of late, to you all's mutual credit. Having the android version duplicate a function that the iOS version can already perform would, of course, come under "feature request".

[ZackJones]

If it were up to me I would concentrate android development on the scoring aspect of the sport and iOS on the management aspect. IMO nothing beats an NST for scoring and nothing beats an iPad for everything else.

[euxx]

It's a debatable point, of course. I already agree with USPSA's position on ownership of match data.

No support in any form? Really? The Nationals has been scored with Practiscore for two years now. That sounds like "support" to me. Adoption by the USPSA BoD as an official scoring program also sounds like "support". Very significant support, in fact.

It worth nothing that those two Nationals were run by the person who started PractiScore... and it also didn't cost nothing for to USPSA to accept PractiScore as a scoring software, since it is been used by many clubs. So, organization is taking a completely passive position in this.

I do totally understand and agree with prioritizing feature requests and bug reports. Bug reports especially, and I'll be the first to acknowledge it seems there has been much progress in quality control of late, to you all's mutual credit. Having the android version duplicate a function that the iOS version can already perform would, of course, come under "feature request".

Well, it been recorded, noted and has its place in the queue. For instance, ICORE support will have a higher priority, especially given that exporting and generating activity reports for USPSA is not a show stopper issue (i.e. you have other options to export and generate).

[bikerburgess]

Biker, that is 98% exactly what we do. Only difference is that we have people sign up for the match online and import that. We just now started using a new program from one of our members that allows us to squad as well. We are cautiously optimistic that squadding will work, the first run through saved us probably an hour and it certainly saved a lot of aggravation on my part. Time will tell if that was a fluke,

.At this point if I were to be told I had to go back to paper and EzWin I think I'd quit as Stats.

We do registration on a tablet (lately a iPad but we have also used my samsung) to facilitate the squading we have paper squad sheets on the desk in front of the stats person taking the money and entering the shooters. You pick a squad as you sign up (or you friends pick one for you) the sheets are avaliable to pre squad before we start registration. This seams to work pretty well, the paper squad sheets are SOP from the pre Practiscore days and everyone is familiar with the system.

[wgnoyes]

It worth nothing that those two Nationals were run by the person who started PractiScore... and it also didn't cost nothing for to USPSA to accept PractiScore as a scoring software, since it is been used by many clubs. So, organization is taking a completely passive position in this.

The name of the MD for the Nationals is irrelevant. That USPSA chose to risk the outcome and reputation of its National Championships on an unproven scoring system at that stage of development and at that time speaks volumes for the level of confidence the Board placed in Niftybytes and Ken Nelson. That's hardly what I would call passive, and if I were you, I would exhibit a bit more deference and gratitude to the customer for taking that huge leap of faith.

Well, it been recorded, noted and has its place in the queue. For instance, ICORE support will have a higher priority, especially given that exporting and generating activity reports for USPSA is not a show stopper issue (i.e. you have other options to export and generate).

Thank you, I appreciate it. It just seems to me like since it was implemented as a feature in the iOS version, logic would suggest it also be available in the android version, especially since that version, because of lower hardware cost, is the one more likely to be employed in the field. The goal of PS, either version, is to offer a modern complete replacement for ezwinscore. The apple version has done that. So long as I still have to use ezwinscore to generate uspsa.org match results and activity reporting, that goal has yet to be achieved on the android side. Ultimately I perceive it as a Niftybytes project management issue, and someone higher up just needs to come along and say "we need to get this done".

Edited May 31, 2015 by wgnoyes

[euxx]

The name of the MD for the Nationals is irrelevant. That USPSA chose to risk the outcome and reputation of its National Championships on an unproven scoring system at that stage of development and at that time speaks volumes for the level of confidence the Board placed in Niftybytes and Ken Nelson. That's hardly what I would call passive, and if I were you, I would exhibit a bit more deference and gratitude to the customer for taking that huge leap of faith.

That wasn't my match or my customer. Ken wanted to use his scoring software at the match he run and then it was between him and the board. Ken also provided a full time developer resource for duration of the match. Not sure what does that has to do with me or what I supposed to exhibit.

...The goal of PS, either version, is to offer a modern complete replacement for ezwinscore...

The way I see it, the goal for PS is to provide modern scoring solution for multiple shooting sports.

Then is up to USPSA organization, if they want to replace ezws or not. As I already mentioned it multiple times, it can be easily achieved without doing anything with PractiScore app for Android.

[Jim Norman]

Biker, that is 98% exactly what we do. Only difference is that we have people sign up for the match online and import that. We just now started using a new program from one of our members that allows us to squad as well. We are cautiously optimistic that squadding will work, the first run through saved us probably an hour and it certainly saved a lot of aggravation on my part. Time will tell if that was a fluke,

.At this point if I were to be told I had to go back to paper and EzWin I think I'd quit as Stats.

We do registration on a tablet (lately a iPad but we have also used my samsung) to facilitate the squading we have paper squad sheets on the desk in front of the stats person taking the money and entering the shooters. You pick a squad as you sign up (or you friends pick one for you) the sheets are avaliable to pre squad before we start registration. This seams to work pretty well, the paper squad sheets are SOP from the pre Practiscore days and everyone is familiar with the system.

Prior to Practiscore we used as you do, paper squad lists. With last months introduction of Online Squadding, that system provides a utility to printout the squad lists as well as an alphabetical registration list. Prior we used to assign squads at registration, this was at times very stressful;

[jester121]

No support in any form? Really? The Nationals has been scored with Practiscore for two years now. That sounds like "support" to me. Adoption by the USPSA BoD as an official scoring program also sounds like "support". Very significant support, in fact.

Yeah, the same way welfare recipients "support" food stamp programs, and cheap/lazy parents "support" free school lunches.

The name of the MD for the Nationals is irrelevant. That USPSA chose to risk the outcome and reputation of its National Championships on an unproven scoring system at that stage of development and at that time speaks volumes for the level of confidence the Board placed in Niftybytes and Ken Nelson. That's hardly what I would call passive, and if I were you, I would exhibit a bit more deference and gratitude to the customer for taking that huge leap of faith.

You also have a strange definition of the word "customer". USPSA is not a customer of Practiscore/Niftybytes, to the best of my knowledge. That would imply some compensation has taken place, which has not happened. USPSA has merely chosen not to erect barriers to a hugely popular, free software tool that saves its members and clubs countless thousands of hours each year -- one that was already in wide use before it was officially approved. Otherwise they haven't offered the tiniest bit of support.

We're all consumers, not customers. Some donate time reporting bugs and testing beta versions, some throw a few bucks in the donations bucket on the website, and some rant and rave and complain and bicker over petty personality conflicts.

[wgnoyes]

Eugene, thanks for the feedback.

Jester121, whatever. We in GA were running the pre-1.0 beta version of this stuff and giving feedback to the vendor before most of you. We gave the android version the ultimate trial by fire last year with it's first really big match in the 2014 Area 6 Ch. We're far from your bizarre definition of being welfare recipients. And I've been painfully polite to Euxx this go-round, so your rebuke is accordingly rejected without comment.

(And "customer" was a term beaten into me as a programmer 30-something years ago by an IT Director as opposed to saying "user". The idea being, treat your users like they were "customers". As in, the customer is always right.)

Edited June 1, 2015 by wgnoyes

[Stan-O]

FWIW PractiScore is not the only multi-platform app which has different feature set on different platforms.

I totally see Eugene's point on implementing activity and match result files generation on Android, especially that the 3rd gen iPod touch can be had second hand on ebay for $20-$30 and it can run PractiScore which has this feature.

PS. Was EZWS developed under contract from USPSA? As in paid contract?

[wgnoyes]

No. EZWS was the windows version of MSDOS EzScore. It went live Jan 2001. Both were developed by the then NE Section Coordinator Roger Funk, who passed away some years ago. USPSA for awhile tried to outsource development and maintenance of the system to someone in Colorado (as I recall) and I suppose that was under contract, but it didn't work out. USPSA then did the only logical thing left and that was to take development in-house, where it still remains. Roger Maier and Rob Boudrie both taught themselves Powerbuilder a decade ago, USPSA bought a couple of licenses for the IDE, and that is where it stands, owned, maintained, and held entirely within the organization.

[LabMan45]

This seems like a good spot to bring up this issue. One of the clubs I support likes to run single stage shotgun and rifle side matches with its regular monthly pistol matches, which of course can be handled within EzWinScore. I know the Android version in and out pretty well, but have only limited exposure to the earlier iOS versions of PractiScore. Has anyone come up with a clever way of handling side matches? Right now, I create a separate single stage PractiScore match for scoring purposes, then edit the registration and hand-enter the side match scores after the main pistol match has been pulled into EzWinScore. It's not terrible because the side match squad is always a small fraction of the overall match entriy, but it's kind of clunky and feels like a step backwards.

[euxx]

Has anyone come up with a clever way of handling side matches? Right now, I create a separate single stage PractiScore match for scoring purposes, then edit the registration and hand-enter the side match scores after the main pistol match has been pulled into EzWinScore...

Could you elaborate?

Separate match makes sense. Different set of shooters (so, separate registration). If you want, you can export registration to csv and re-import to another match.

Separate match scored as usual. Then it can be exported to ezws, as a different match.

[LabMan45]

Eugene,

The side match registration is a subset of the main match registry. So, those shooters' names are already in the match when it gets pulled into EzWinScore. By 'edit the registration' I mean going into that imported registration list in EzWinScore and tagging those shooters that also shot the side match.

The only reason for setting up a separate match with PractiScore is to be able hand that squad a tablet to score themselves on rather than using paper and so the results are immediately available for viewing when they are done shooting.

That separate PractiScore shotgun or rifle match could also be pulled into EzWinScore, but only as a stand-alone match. Thus, two match names and two matches to upload to USPSA as opposed to the single match that is possible with EzWinScore.

I haven't yet tried creating a extra pistol stage within PractiScore for the side match and then converting it to a rifle or shotgun stage after importing. But it's kind of a moot point. The goal is to get away from needing EzWinSCore at all.

This is not a big issue and not one I could recommend spending development resources on at this time........just a discussion topic and curiosity. Thanks for thinking about it though.

[euxx]

I am not familiar with side matches in ezws, but it sounds as you still uploading two separate matches (for any scoring purposes I can't see how that can be the same one match) and the whole issue is just about tagging some people for your side match.

As a work around you can re-import registration from your main match (using spreadsheet import/export) and then delete shooters you don't need. Though entering them again might be as fast, because you likely need to change divisions anyways.

The ios app has an option to sync people between matches, but as far as I know that was added to support match series.

[LabMan45]

Just to close the loop on this, and for no other good purpose other than to satisfy a curiosity.............and assist anyone else that may get involved with side matches..........it appears EzWinScore can be tricked.

First, set up the side match stage as another normal pistol stage in PractiScore. Enter scores and complete the match normally (only a portion of the registered shooters will complete the extra stage).. In EzWinScore, set up the match file as a pistol only match before importing the registration. If a rifle or shotgun side is selected before importing, the registration won't get pulled in.

After importing the registration, edit the match information to include rifle and/or shotgun. Edit the shooters' information that competed in the side match. Then import the stages and scores. EzWinScore will prompt for the type of stage (Pistol, Rifle, or Shotgun) as each is imported. Finally, import the scores.

End result: one match file and match name; one Web File to upload to USPSA.; one headache.