Mike in CT Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I have been researching this both here and on other forums. It seems there is a lot of information and likely a lot of mis-information out there. What I would like is a dot that floats ABOVE the iron sights. I see no use in having the dot partially covering the iron sights, seems odd to me. I am not sure what the actual definition of co-witness is, but it seems like everyone has their own idea. With that said, does anyone have solid info on an optic and how the dot sits in relation to the iron sights? I have been looking at the Burris FF3 (cheap, lifetime warranty), J Point and Dr. I cannot find an STS anywhere, looks like the new STS2 is the only one available and that DOES NOT fit the pistol regardless of which plate you use. A picture of the sights/dot alignment would be great. thanks in advance, looking forward to getting the optic mounted! Mike OK, I looked up the definition of co-witness, looks like what I want is the lower 1/3 co-witness, so the dot floats above the iron sights. Edited March 31, 2015 by Mike in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not sure where the dot sits with a DeltaPoint in regard to the provided sights but you might add that one to your list, the price of the current DeltaPoint may come down in the next month or two as the new DeltaPoint Pro is supposed to hit the shelves in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The RMR is very solid and a great design. The Delta Point is also a great dot for it, a little larger than the RMR. Both of them would sit at the top of the irons when I got them dialed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) The dot only co-witnesses (iron sights aligned with the dot in the same place) when you align the iron sights, all you have to do is shift your pistol, (or head) a bit. Then the iron sights aren't aligned with the dot, but if you put the dot on the target an press the trigger you will hit it. (assuming you don't flinch ) There are times when the dot is hard to pick up (flare of sunlight comes to mind) and having the irons isn't a bad thing. I've used a Deltapoint for the past 2 years, no failures, 1 battery, and I've never re-zeroed the sight after the initial zero. I made the mistake of letting my wife use it last weekend, now it's her's (it's OK, she said since I have a new Open gun, I don't need it any more) I don't have any pictures of the dot, I tried once and it was very difficult to hold everything and use the camera so I gave up. I won't have the co-witness option on my new gun (no iron sights). But other than the occasional "Where's the dot!" I haven't really needed them. After you get used to the optic, you really don't even see the iron sights anymore. Hope this helps. I've got almost 90K rounds through this, still shoots like new. Edited March 31, 2015 by Bkreutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc5 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Bkruetz is right on - concentrate on (ONLY) the dot on the a zone, the iron front sight is not and will not "be in the way". Unless you feel the need to have the irons as a backup, in the (unlikely) event of a battery failure, they will go unnoticed if you practice with an learn the advantages of the red dot. The Deltapoint triangle is pretty large, theres no "confusion" between it and the front sight ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 My MagNaPorted 9mm 5" CORE wears a Leupold DeltaPoint (Gen 1). I like the sight a lot, especially the enhanced precision of the delta reticle for distance shots. I run minor PF ammo only (for 3-Gun competition). The one thing I don't like is that the windage and elevation lock screws are obscured by the rear sight...I had to make a special tool to zero without removing the optic from the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Trijicon RMR on mine non-ported C.O.R.E. it works like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truborshooter Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Adjustable RMR on quad ported CORE for 3 gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPrimo Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 RMR on mine … removed the sights altogether to clear my view. Works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucoamultigun Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 My MagNaPorted 9mm 5" CORE wears a Leupold DeltaPoint (Gen 1). I like the sight a lot, especially the enhanced precision of the delta reticle for distance shots. I run minor PF ammo only (for 3-Gun competition). The one thing I don't like is that the windage and elevation lock screws are obscured by the rear sight...I had to make a special tool to zero without removing the optic from the slide. Any chance you would consider making another special tool as I have the same problem? That is my only complaint so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I "made" a special tool as well. Basically, i just heated the little torx wrench (the one that comes in the kit) with a torch and put a near 90* bend very close to the end. This allows me to get in there and get access to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucoamultigun Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I "made" a special tool as well. Basically, i just heated the little torx wrench (the one that comes in the kit) with a torch and put a near 90* bend very close to the end. This allows me to get in there and get access to it. Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moostapha Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I have an RMR RM07 on mine. I EDC it and will be competing with it soon, about 800 rounds through it so far and around 2000 dry fires with no problems of any kind....strangely, my IWB holster came in before my competition rig. The only way the dot will be accurate is if it co-witnesses with the irons. That's not special, it just happens...think about how sights work. If you don't want to see the irons, take them off or add a spacer and longer screws so the optic is higher...but I wouldn't actually recommend that. It does seem easier to learn the dot with irons there...you just do the same draw/presentation and half a moment before you'd be on target, there the dot is. Plus, they're there so you don't completely bomb a stage if there's a problem with the dot...just use the irons. Fwiw, the rmr and the PC ported core does have the co-witness location at the bottom of the reticle. It's really easy to ignore the irons, but they do occlude some of the bottom of the reticle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallz Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) FF3 3moa on mine. You realy can't co witnesses with it that well just the top of rear sight is visible, however if you use the white line on the back of the FF for alignment and lollipop the dot with the front sight it works well. Edited April 23, 2015 by Hallz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaLarry Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 How about the Vortex Razor? How does Jerry Miculek mount his since the Razor is not listed in the booklet? Sent from my reloading bench using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 For me if I line up my irons ( the top of the rear is just high enough to level the front sight in the notch not a true cosiness sight picture) then the dot of my FF3 with 3 most dot sits just above my front sight(pic 1). But if I don't worry about the irons and just put the dot in the center of the glass it is an 1/8 of an inch above the front sight and I can see the whole front sight post. (Pic 2) This is on a ported core 9L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowashooter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Second pic oriented correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkhan Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I have a gen 1 delta point mounted on S&W 500 and it has survived the recoil from 1000+ rounds. So, it should be GTG for a slide ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girphoto Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Howdy I just picked up a M&P 4.25 in 9mm.....Thought my C-More RTS2 would fit......Noooooooo, Oh, well....called C-more and they still have a few original STS in Stock at $399......... Yep, I ordered one and will have it Wednesday and installed Wednesday........ I use C-More sights on all of my open guns and find them very reliable. Call C-More at 540-347-4683 Good Luck! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IATURNKEY Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 The new Vortex Viper can be placed on an M&P CORE and it provides the co-witness sight picture you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tator2k Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I run a Razor on mine. I've the sights are a distraction and will be coming off soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 We (wife and I) have Doctor Sight II Plus on our Shadows. Doctor Sight is guaranteed " bulletproof" for 5 years as long as you don't break the Glass. Very durable, I know of one that has over 100K on a Major 9 Open gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWard79 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I switched the factory sights out with a Dawson Precision standard height sight set. Doing this removed the iron sights from the DeltaPoint lense, and provides a better iron sight setup (.100 front / .125 rear) for production when the sight is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girphoto Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 This is my M&P Ported with C-more STS, 7MOA on top. I use TTI +4 mag extensions on my 9mm Mag's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltonFeep Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) I have used both a Burris FFIII and FFII. The FFIII will work but the front sight is barely visible above the RDS when the dot is on target. The lower profile of the FFII makes a big difference in terms of co-witnessing. I am currently using the FFII for that reason although in general I prefer the FFIII because it's easier to change the battery and the intensity is user adjustable. BTW, anyone know if the M&P Ported has made the approved list yet? Some suggested it had been submitted and in the future could be used in Carry Optics with a non-ported barrel. Edited October 18, 2015 by WaltonFeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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