Question about loading 9mm with coated bullets

[Kaldor]

Hey all

Ive done a fair amount of searching on the forums for load data using Missouri Bullet Co Hi-tek coated bullets, and had a couple quick questions.

I tried 500 of the 124gr coated round nose from MBC over 5gr of Power Pistol. Im happy with the load. Decently accurate, doesnt recoil badly.

I just purchased another 1000 of the 124's and 500 147gr to give them a try.

The change here is that Im switching to Titegroup for powder as this is what I can get locally and in decent quantity. I like the Power Pistol, but its too hit or miss if I can get it.

Suggested loads:

124gr RN bullet

3.5gr Titegroup

1.15 OAL

Winchester SPP

147gr FP bullet

3gr Titegroup

1.10 OAL

Winchester SPP

Pistol will be a M&P Pro 5"

Anyone see any issues with either of these as a jump off point? Im not trying to make power factor or anything, just want something that shoots decent.

Thanks

Edited March 27, 2015 by Kaldor

[texasref]

I can only speak to the 147gr bullet.

3gr of TG will be fine. I know that 3.2gr will get you to 135pf.

Since your not interested in making power factor, you can go down from where your starting at 3.0gr.

I shoot 2.6gr out of a 4.5" XDM with no issues.

OAL is 1.155, but plunk test the length in your barrel it may be different.

[CodyAxon]

I also can only speak for the 147 grain load. I run 3.1 grains of titegroup for poly coated blue bullets at 1.110 for my CZ shadow and it's fairly consistent at about 900 FPS. They shoot plenty soft for me so I don't run them any lighter.

[Kaldor]

Thanks guys.

I will be sure to set up a dummy round, and do a plunk test to get OAL correct.

[shooterDrew]

I loaded 500 or so 2.8gr TG at about 1.135" with 147gr FP (mine were bayou). They were incredibly soft, tho I was shooting up close so I can't make any comments on accuracy. Only problem for me was they chrono'd at 121pf, which doesn't get the job done. Otherwise they ran flawlessly in my mp9pro 5"

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[cnote]

All you guys mixing tight group and high tech coating, how is the smoke?????

I know the combo was horrible with the older versions of moly

[seanc]

Hi-tek is not moly.

regardless, I don't notice that they smoke any more than anything else.

[Kaldor]

Loaded just a 100 of each today with the TG. Then another 800 with the rest of the Powerpistol I had on hand.

Ended up at 1.09 on the 124s and 1.10 on the 147s. Both pass the plunk test with flying colors

[joshxdm9]

I load bayou 124gr round nose with 3.2g titegroup group at 1.160 out of a xdm 5.25 chrono at about 980fps. It is a steel and 3gun load very soft of recoil and no smoke

[cnote]

thanks for the answers about the smoke, will have to try it

[shooterDrew]

I have not noticed smoke at all. Doesn't mean there is zero, but so little I haven't seen it or found it distracting.

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Edited March 29, 2015 by shooterDrew

[DougCarden]

I have 122 LTC sized .357 coated bullets loaded with 3.7gr. TG. No smoke compared to bare lubed lead or moly coated lead. It shoots so well it is my Bianchi practice ammo......shot a 2in group at 50 yards last week with it.....

DougC

[Griz44]

I load the 147 Hi-Tek Gold coated no lube groove round nose from Black and Blue with 4.9gr of AA#5.

It burns clean and is very accurate. I have not tested the other colors and cannot speak for them (LOL)

[9x45]

I switched to Bayou Bullets last October because my blood lead was over 25. Retested after 4 months and it went down to 8. They don't lead and they don't smoke, from either OEM Glock barrels or BarSto's and Lone Wolf. Your hands don't get all nasty like when running moly coated bullets. Clean up is just a couple of pulls of the bore snake. My load is a 125 TC over 4 grains of TiteGroup at 1.125" for all my Glocks, G19s,G17s,G34 and G17L. Point of aim/point of impact at 40 yards.

This is what my barrel looked like after a USPSA match with moly bullets

[truborshooter]

blood lead testing is very unreliable

bet if you retested the day after you got the first results you would be in the normal range again.

you're talking ug/dL, micrograms (one millionth of a gram) per deciliter (1/10th of a liter), 1 ug = 0.000015432 grains or 1 grain = 64799 ug

http://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/micrograms-to-grains-table.htm

grains of salt in a swimming pool.

CDC claims testing tolerances of +/- 2 ug (maybe at a top university research lab) but most automated big commercial testing labs couldn't hold +/- 15-20 ug.

They just don't get that many calls for the test, the reactants are expensive and the qc is poor. The same sample run twice may be the 'gold standard' for these labs

but junk chemistry is junk results.

Anyone who tests above normal (elevated) like you, should insist on an immediate retests, one to the original lab and one to an alternative lab.

I've had been getting tested regularly for heavy metals, job requirements, and have been through this many times.

Lead tends to accumulate in body fat and when very high level in nerve bundles and bones. Blood levels are very much lower than body levels, but we can't chop you up to find out how much lead is in you. Plus you have a base lead level from the soil and foods you eat.

4 months between tests with no treatment, usually chelation for up to 6 months, and heavy dieting or increases in iron, calcium intakes shouldn't result in a >25 to 8 drop.

Wear rubber gloves when handling lead bullets,primers, fired cases and while gun cleaning, keep you hands out of face while working on dirty guns, reloading or shooting, wash well with cool water and soap or lead wipes after handling, reloading or shooting, only shoot in WELL ventilated indoor and outdoor ranges, don't lean or sit on range tables, chairs, walls or dividers, remove 'shooting only clothes and footwear' before you get inside you home, move then in disposable plastic bags to launder them separately and run a rinse cycle on the empty washer afterwards. shower promptly after handling and shooting, store and transport range gear in plastic bags, use a plastic liner in your car storage areas cleaning it regularly and you have a ug risk of lead problems to you, your family, pets, car or your home.

Especially if you have small kids at home.

95% of lead problems are small children eating paint chips and soil or living in contaminated areas.

The balance mostly industrial and very rarely hobby exposure.

25 ug/dL isn't much for an 175 lb adult but crippling for a 30 lb kid.

[yellowfin]

Any reason not to use Unique with these bullets? My local source has a lot of it cheap and lots of old timers loved loading it for cast lead.

[noylj]

TG burns very hot and several coated-bullet companies make direct recommendations NOT to use TG.

TG is better than Clays for accuracy, but it still isn't that consistent.

My comments about the loads:

1) You ALWAYS start with the starting load and work up. You don't use someone else's data and assume it will work for you. I always start with the lowest starting load I can find.

2) You ALWAYS determine the COL by using your gun and the specific bullet and don't assume that any other bullet of that weight will use the same COL. You don't use the COL in a manual as a recommendation, but simply as the COL that was used for testing (meaning you might want to be careful even of the starting load if you have to load to a shorter COL). You should load a couple of inert dummy rounds and find the longest COL that feeds and chambers 100%.

3) 124gn lead bullet and TG: Start loads range from 2.9gn (1015 fps) to 3.6gn (1002 fps) from various manuals. Now, consider if you had the gun and components where 2.9gn gave 1015fps and you started at 3.6gn? Think maybe you would be at max or over max pressure? Accuracy seems to be 1050 fps (or right around 130 PF). My COLs run from 1.080 to 1.160", depending on the bullet used.

4) 147gn lead bullet and TG: I have no manual that has such a load and I have never gotten any decent accuracy with any load I have tested. I start at 2.6gn and worked up. 3.3-3.5gn seems to be at or near MAX in my guns, but your gun can be very different. My COLs ran from 1.135 to 1.160" for different bullets.

Edited April 3, 2015 by noylj

[Patruck825]

Anyone have any recommendations for poly bullets using WIN autocomp? I've got 500 eggleston munitions 115gr poly bullets and a pound of autocomp ready for my 5" M&P PC ported.

The load data on hodgdon shows 4.4 starting and 5.1 max for a 115gr LRN, but every thread I see, people are using auto comp from 5.5 to 7.0gr, especially the major PF guys. What gives?

[seanc]

Anyone have any recommendations for poly bullets using WIN autocomp? I've got 500 eggleston munitions 115gr poly bullets and a pound of autocomp ready for my 5" M&P PC ported.

The load data on hodgdon shows 4.4 starting and 5.1 max for a 115gr LRN, but every thread I see, people are using auto comp from 5.5 to 7.0gr, especially the major PF guys. What gives?

I think you answered your own question sort of, autocomp is a common powder for making major in open which is why you see alot of posts with loads way out of the published range...

[Patruck825]

Sort of, I was always taught that reloading past MAX is dangerous, let alone 2-3gr past max with sometimes less COL than the book.

then again up until now I have only been reloading .308win, I don't know how pistol differs.

I have heard that autocomp doesn't really start burning clean until around 5.0-5.5gr, with that said.. is it really necessary that I start loading at 4.4 when people are running 7+ without issues?

does anyone with poly bullet experience know if grains are usually increased with poly over lead, or decreased?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Patruck825

[seanc]

Well,

Sort of, I was always taught that reloading past MAX is dangerous, let alone 2-3gr past max with sometimes less COL than the book.

then again up until now I have only been reloading .308win, I don't know how pistol differs.

I have heard that autocomp doesn't really start burning clean until around 5.0-5.5gr, with that said.. is it really necessary that I start loading at 4.4 when people are running 7+ without issues?

does anyone with poly bullet experience know if grains are usually increased with poly over lead, or decreased?

From a pure liability perspective, you are on your own going out of the range....but you don't need to go further than this forum to find dozens of loads that are wildly out of the published ranges or loads for bullet/powder combinations that have absolutely no published data at all.

You should follow the book values, start at the bottom and work up from there, always...

Edited April 3, 2015 by seanc

[Willz]

TG burns very hot and several coated-bullet companies make direct recommendations NOT to use TG.

Hmmm I've never seen any such statements but I can tell you both Bayou and Blue Bullets have little to no smoke over TiteGroup.

I've shot with a guy in IDPA who shoots lubed lead over TiteGroup and it looks like he's shooting black powder.

Coated bullets produce no noticeable amount of smoke.

I shoot 124 gr Blue Bullets and Bayou depending which is in stock over 3.8gr of TiteGroup and it give good accuracy and shoots well out of my G17.

[accu9]

The blue bullets do not use hi-tek coating, it's something proprietary. Regardless, neither hi-tek coated bullets or the blue bullets coating smokes with TG. To clarify when I say smoke, I mean no more so than plated or fully jacketed bullets with TG.

[CZ85Combat]

.. is it really necessary that I start loading at 4.4 when people are running 7+ without issues?

YES Loading past MAX is for open guns only!

[Patruck825]

I'm not sure I follow that logic...what you're using the gun for doesn't change the pressure or wether or not the load is safe. A load that is going to blow up in a IDPA gun is going to blow up in a open gun too. With that said, I do intend to use this gun for open.