smokeandmirrors Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 8208 is excellent at 23.2 grains. My favorite powder for XTC loads with 77 gr Noslers is H4895. I find it to be cleaner and more accurate than Varget and it generates more velocity. Another powder that I use with 75 gr Hornady HPBT bullets is AA 2520. It meters well in my 650 powder measure and generates the highest velocities I've seen, albeit with relatively high ES. Rem 7.5 primers for every load, no pressure signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeandmirrors Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I meant to mention that I load for 6 rifles, all with 20" Kriegers (1-7.7"). One has a CLE chamber and the rest have Wylde chambers cut by Krieger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcalidave Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Very strange experience with Toms loading yesterday. His barrel is a noveske 18" 1-8 and the 77gr loads he worked up were grouping fairly well for a start. I tried a few in my rifle, 18" black hole 1-8, and all the shots were keyholed bad at 100y. I can shoot xm193 and other 55gr sub moa, but the 77s were a complete failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Very strange experience with Toms loading yesterday. His barrel is a noveske 18" 1-8 and the 77gr loads he worked up were grouping fairly well for a start. I tried a few in my rifle, 18" black hole 1-8, and all the shots were keyholed bad at 100y. I can shoot xm193 and other 55gr sub moa, but the 77s were a complete failure. Have you ever shot other heavy bullets (68/69 grains and up) with any success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcalidave Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 69 yes, I think I tried 75s but the group wasn't great. These were just terrible though, and tumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 i would check the twist rate on that barrel and make sure its a 1-8. 1-9 should stabilize up to an including 77 without an issue, 1-8 even better. You can do this with a tight patch on a cleaning rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78maverick Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Howdy - first post here. I have several BHW polygonal barrels, but in 6 and 6.5mm. I find that Noslers don't shoot as well as some other brands. Seem to be more sensitive to load/velocity. Less of a difference between brands when fired from conventionally rifled barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 BEST LOADS in Larue Stealth with 77 grain SMK bullets 24.1 grains (Sierra recommended Accuracy load) 1. 25742. 25893. 26134. 26135. 2599Average 2597Spread 39Accuracy .568 Best 4 All 5 groups .73 (one called flier ruined average) Load 23.8 grains of Varget Remington Match primers 77 grain SMK 1. 24552. 24803. 25384. 24955. 2530Average 2500 Spread 83Average 5 shot group .66 N135 21.8 grains 77 grain SMK 1. 24482. 25453. 25344. 25195. 2459Average 2501Average 5 shot group .65 22.6 grains of H335 1. 25242. 25053. 24834. 25295. 2521Average 2512 Spread 46Average 5 shot group size .72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Very strange experience with Toms loading yesterday. His barrel is a noveske 18" 1-8 and the 77gr loads he worked up were grouping fairly well for a start. I tried a few in my rifle, 18" black hole 1-8, and all the shots were keyholed bad at 100y. I can shoot xm193 and other 55gr sub moa, but the 77s were a complete failure. Sounds like your barrel is one of those where the twist is not what it says on the barrel. Most barrel makers are with in 1/2 twist of what is advertised. So yours may actually be closer to 1/9 than 1/8. You should not be getting key holing with a 1/8 twist barrel and 77 grain bullets. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 1/9 should work fine with 77's. I would just send the thing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 1/9 should work fine with 77's. I would just send the thing back. 1/9 is hit or miss with 77's and that is from personal experience. The loading manuals say its not ok. But as I said earlier most barrels are not really what they are marked. Some 1/9's may be 1 8.5 or 1 in 9.5. The length of the barrel also is a factor. A 20 inch 1/9 barrel will be more likely to stabilize a 77 grain bullet than a 16 inch one. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 1/9 should work fine with 77's. I would just send the thing back. Ummm.......not likely. A 1-9 twist barrel in most situations will not spin a 77 grain bullet fast enough to stabilize it. Even if id does at 100 yards, it's likely to go to pot at longer ranges. I'm down to one rifle in the fleet with a 1-9 twist barrel, a Walther Loathar 20" Varmatch contour on my critter gitter. It's an absolute hammer with 50 gr Vmax loads, but it won't even shoot 69 grain bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 +1 on this. I have had numerous 1-9 twist barrels that would not keep a 75-77 gr bullet stable. Granted, I have primarily built 16 to 18" guns so I can't say whether or not 20" barrels will, but 69 is as high as I have been able to go with 1-9 twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmeat Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Anybody here have a recipe for duplicating the Mk 262 or Black Hills 77OTM or 77TMK loadings? They go over 2700 fps in my 18" SPR. My reloads at max NATO loadings (per the powder manufacturers) only get to 2575 fps or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeandmirrors Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Look up accurate arms data for aa2520 with 77s if you want mk262 velocity from an 18" barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmeat Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Thanks. Tried some 2520 some years back and my notes say temp sensitive. Will revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeandmirrors Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 AA2520 is definitely temperature sensitive. Work it up on a hot day to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Anybody here have a recipe for duplicating the Mk 262 or Black Hills 77OTM or 77TMK loadings? They go over 2700 fps in my 18" SPR. My reloads at max NATO loadings (per the powder manufacturers) only get to 2575 fps or so. Try Ramshot TAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeandmirrors Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Anybody here have a recipe for duplicating the Mk 262 or Black Hills 77OTM or 77TMK loadings? They go over 2700 fps in my 18" SPR. My reloads at max NATO loadings (per the powder manufacturers) only get to 2575 fps or so.Try Ramshot TAC That'll work too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto727 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 BEST LOADS in Larue Stealth with 77 grain SMK bullets 24.1 grains (Sierra recommended Accuracy load) 1. 2574 2. 2589 3. 2613 4. 2613 5. 2599 Average 2597 Spread 39 What powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 While I understand that .223 loads are off topic for this thread and yet we continue...ill add that I too have been shooting TAC with 77s for some time now and its been a real performer in several rifles. Getting back on topic; any resolution on this barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 i would check the twist rate on that barrel and make sure its a 1-8. 1-9 should stabilize up to an including 77 without an issue, 1-8 even better. You can do this with a tight patch on a cleaning rod. On the Outdoor channel last night there was a little blurb about AR twist rates. A sargent with the AMU demonstrated how to measure the twist rate with a bore brush or a tight fitting patch. The gun he checked was one of the AMU's match rifles and it turns out to be a 1-7.5. (Did not say what the barrel was marked.) I always assumed the barrel manufacturer had sufficient quality control that they would be consistent in twist rates. Since my match guns have not had problems shooting my reloads, I never really wondered what the actual twist rate is. Guess it would not hurt to check them. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Its not quality control, its ease of marking. Barrel know what their twist rates are and how and why they made them. Much sleep should not be lost over this. This is a bad barrel, I don't know what's wrong but I would send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcalidave Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Why would i send it back. Gun shoots sub MOA with other ammo. Just didn't like these at all. I just won't shoot this load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsii64 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Lake city case trimmed and sized. 25.2 grains of AA2520 Wolf small rifle magnum primer (wolf SR magnum primers have the regular charge, but have a harder cup ) 77 grain SMK or 75 grain BTHP. In my RRA predator pursuite these bullets shot to the same point of aim YMMV ONLY SHOOT THIS LOAD IF YOU HAVE A WYLDE OR NATO CHAMBER. THIS IS TO HOT FOR A 223 SAMMI CHAMBER!!!! According to the Accurate Arms manual 26.4 of 2520 is a max load for Wylde and NATO chambers but I got best accuracy with 25.2 Edited April 4, 2015 by rdsii64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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