Best scope for limited

[Nemesis Lead]

I have shot limited with an Aimpoint. I am considering moving to a scope with etched glass for matches with longer shots.

Which of the following 3 do people think is best and why?

1) Leupold prismatic DCD reticle.

2) Burris AR 1X

3) Vortex spitfire.

4) Or something else?

I am really interested in people who have used 2 or more of these.

Many thanks!

[dkynoch]

I have shot limited for a year. Before that my background was NRA high power with a2 sights. I have been using the vortex spitfire. I have really liked it for what it is. I think if availability wasn't an issue when I was buying it at the first of last year when the Burris wasn't readily available I would have bought it.

[Moltke]

I have used Aimpoints, EOTechs, and the Prismatic. The Prismatic is by far a superior choice for long range, true red dots are better for up close. However the up close shooting is going to be easy anyway so I'd pick a Prismatic in the 1x division.

1) Top notch optical clarity in your scope because of very nice glass but more so, you're not looking 200-300 yards downrange through your scope like a typical red dot. You are looking at the reprojected 1x image of what's downrange but focused on the glass inches in front of your eye.

2) Sharpness and smallness of the center dot in the DCD reticle - as a 3 MOA dot its not preferred by many at first but if you go with a 100 yard or 200 yard "top of dot" zero then considering the ballistic drop you'll be shooting "inside your dot" out to 300 yards and maybe further. Check your math on your load for specifics.

Sorry that I don't have experience with the Burris or Spitfire but I have alot of time shooting Aimpoints / EOTechs and 2 years shooting a DCD Prismatic in 3-Gun (recently just permanently switched to TACOPS and got a 6x)... Good luck!

[tnorman]

I have a Vortex Strikefire 2 and love it. I have no problem out to 250 yds with it.

[Nemesis Lead]

Thanks for the great replies gentlemen. I appreciate it! I have a Prismatic on the way.

A question for you Ken:

With a 100 yard zero, are you "top of the dot" at 200 and "bottom of the dot" at 50? Do you shoot 55 grain ammo from an 18 inch barrel?

[michael1778]

Thanks for the great replies gentlemen. I appreciate it! I have a Prismatic on the way.

A question for you Ken:

With a 100 yard zero, are you "top of the dot" at 200 and "bottom of the dot" at 50? Do you shoot 55 grain ammo from an 18 inch barrel?

That was my very first scope ever. Optically, it was excellent. The mount is a possible problem for stability, etc. However, the fine folks here have solved that with various work-arounds.

[Moltke]

I'll post my data tomorrow because its saved on my work computer

[Bullittmcqueen]

A 100 yard zero should be "top of the dot" at 200 yards, and "headshot" at 300. At 200 I aim at the top of the plate if its a circular plate, at 300 I aim at the head of an IPSC size target, etc.

200 is a 1.5 MOA drop

300 is a 4 MOA drop

Give or take a little.

[Moltke]

Here's how I ran my 1x when I shot 1x.

I zero the top of my dot at 200 yards on paper. With an 18 inch barrel shooting Stillwood 69gr Steadfast, this is my data. Use a ballistic calc to develop your own data but if you can, its a good idea to actually double check that info on paper at 50, 100, and 200. There's knowing your zeroed, and there's KNOWING you're zeroed. Checking by shooting live as far out as you possibly can is better than guessing or assuming you're "on".

200 yard zero Range (yards) Trajectory (in) Come UP in MOA 0 -3 0 25 -1.5 5.5 50 -0.2 0.4 75 0.7 -0.9 100 1.3 -1.2 125 1.6 -1.2 150 1.4 -0.9 175 0.9 -0.5 200 0 0 225 -1.3 0.6 250 -3.2 1.2 275 -5.5 1.9 300 -8.4 2.7 325 -11.8 3.5 350 -15.8 4.3 375 -20.5 5.2 400 -25.8 6.2 425 -31.9 7.2 450 -38.7 8.2 475 -46.4 9.3 500 -55 10.5 525 -64.6 11.7 550 -75.2 13 575 -86.8 14.4 600 -99.7 15.9

This zero scheme is very simple so I'll discuss the hardest part first.

From 0-200 yards the most that you'll ever be "off" is 1.6 inches high at 125 yards, however you need to realize that from about 75-175 yards you are going to be shooting high. What kind of targets do we generally encounter in this zone? Lots of kinds but the hard ones are skinny sammies. If you are presented with a high accuracy target such as a skinny sammy, as long as its vertical then you're fine because the sucker is 14 inches tall and 1.6 inches won't matter... a hit is a hit. However if you shoot FNH 3-Gun where the match director turns them sideways or 45 degree angles to make it harder, then where do you aim? Simple. The top of the dot goes on the bottom edge of your target. The bullet is going to rise and strike somewhere on the steel and since a hit is a hit, thats all you need. There you go, the hardest rifle shots just got easy.

Otherwise, pretty much every other target you run across is going to be fatter so your sight picture will be easier. Most will be 4 MOA or close to it, and the farther you go generally the bigger they get. For this explanation I'll use 4 MOA as an example. From 0-200 yards if you're shooting on 4 MOA target then use the top of your dot to cut the target in half vertically. At 50 you'll be dead on, from 75-175 you'll be a little high but still hit, at 200 you'll be dead on again and 225 you're just barely low. At 250 put the top edge of your dot at the top edge of the target and it will drop some but it will hit. The beauty of this zero is even at 300 yards it only drops 2.7 MOA which means you're shooting inside your dot out to 300 yards without having to hold "off" target. You can continue to use your top of dot zero as a reference point so you don't have to guess.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Moltke

[Moltke]

Sorry didn't realize the load data copy / pasted badly, I'll try to fix that.

[michael1778]

Please, allow me to assist. I have reformatted the data into a monospaced font table

200 yard zero

Range Traj. Come UP

(yds) (in) (MOA)

===== ======= ========

0 -3 0

25 -1.5 5.5

50 -0.2 0.4

75 0.7 -0.9

100 1.3 -1.2

125 1.6 -1.2

150 1.4 -0.9

175 0.9 -0.5

200 0 0

225 -1.3 0.6

250 -3.2 1.2

275 -5.5 1.9

300 -8.4 2.7

325 -11.8 3.5

350 -15.8 4.3

375 -20.5 5.2

400 -25.8 6.2

425 -31.9 7.2

450 -38.7 8.2

475 -46.4 9.3

500 -55 10.5

525 -64.6 11.7

550 -75.2 13

575 -86.8 14.4

600 -99.7 15.9

[Moltke]

Thanks dude, table looks great!

Once beyond 300 yards, use the bottom of the dot as your aiming point instead of the top of the dot and you can shoot even farther without having to "hold off" the target. With my load data and a "bottom edge of dot on top edge of target" hold, I'm 0.5 MOA low at 325, 1.3 MOA low at 350, 2.2 MOA low at 375, and 3.2 MOA low at 400.

The way this works is at 400 yards the bullet drops 6.2 MOA from its zero. Luckily, I know the dot in my reticle is 3 MOA. So if I'm zeroed at the top of the dot, then the bullet is going to impact 3.2 MOA under the bottom of the dot. If the target is at least 4 MOA and I'm holding "bottom edge of dot on top edge of target" then it's going to hit with 0.8 MOA left on the target. The bigger the target is, the more room for error plus since this is Irons / 1x division it's nice to actually be able to SEE what you're shooting at which is why I like big well painted targets.

So to make this fast shooting you have to remember 4 holds -

0-225: cut the target in half vertically with the top of the dot

250-300: top edge of dot on top edge of target

300-400: bottom edge of dot on top edge of target

And the really small targets in your "shooting high" zone, top of dot on the bottom of the target (which is very rare)

Otherwise just pull the trigger a lot and see what happens but make sure to do the math behind your ballistics.

[Nemesis Lead]

Thanks! You guys are awesome!