M&P Trigger spring failure rate inf

[Jhp147]

I'm collecting some information on the life/failure point of M&P trigger springs. If you have had one break or fail, I would appreciate your input. I would like to gather caliber combined with documented or otherwise accurate number of rounds fired and/or age of gun, and whether it was an Apex spring or a factory spring. I gather some folks may be running Glock trigger springs, so if one of them has failed, I'd be interested. Also, if you experienced any type of odd behavior, such as light strikes or failure to reset right before, I'm wondering about that. I'll probably post this in a couple of forums.

Thank you for the info, I'm trying to determine if these should be replaced at interveals. There is no indication of that in the armorer's manual.

Edited March 17, 2015 by sheepdog

[Vlad]

I have a pretty old M&P 40. No springs ever broke. At some point the sear spring got lazy and had a couple of failures to reset, put in a Apex one problem went away. This is the old small diameter sear spring. I don't have accurate round count for it, but I'll guess well over 20k. Obviously at some point you might want to replace the recoil spring, but thats now what was asked.

[CPW1265]

In my 9L I had my Apex spring break after an approximate 12,000 rds. I used a combination of Speer Gold Dot 124 Gr +P (mostly 7000 rds) and Freedom Munitions 115 gr. It took had a life span of about 20 months. I was shooting a USPSA match and it just broke. I didn't realize what the problem was at first when I couldn't take a second shot without racking the slide but eventually I just stopped because I ran out of ammo. And when I took it apart the spring had broke by the loop that goes through the take down pin.

I now change out all my springs every year after the shooting season (in December or January)

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info

[Jhp147]

Yes, all info helps, especially the load info if you think it is important. My Apex trigger spring broke at a documented 5400 rounds of 170 PF loads in my full sized .45. I have no heartburn with Apex whatsoever, and sent them an email to ask them what their experiences were AND ordered another spring set. Stuff just breaks. But I'm wondering if maybe putting a vibration dampener from a factory spring in their spring or a periodic replacement might be in order to prevent the potentional loss of...well the expenses involved in an out of town match, not to mention keeping a carry gun running. And I think I'll run this with a factory trigger spring for a while, someone has mentioned that the pull is even lighter.

Again, appreciate any data.

[CHA-LEE]

Why go through all of the brain damage of asking for subjective data from shooters? Pick a schedule to proactively replace ALL of the springs in your gun that is well within the life span of the springs and stick to it. Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Especially if you put it into perspective of ruining a match that you spent a significant amount of $$$ in travel expenses to attend. If you have a history of breaking a trigger return spring at 5400 rounds, then maybe your frequency of replacing it should be half of that life? For example, I replace every single spring in my gun every 10,000 rounds regardless of how wore out they are. Doing so ensures that I will not suffer malfunctions from failed or weak springs. It also forces me to do a detailed strip, clean and inspection of the whole gun while replacing the springs to head off any other potential issues that may be cropping up.

[StealthyBlagga]

I had the trigger spring in an EARLY Apex DCAEK break after less than a year. Caused a dead trigger that I could not recover from, and is why all my pistols now have the RAM (so I can push the trigger forwards and keep shooting if the trigger spring ever breaks again). Apex sent me several replacements for free and the problem has not recurred. I believe the risk is substantially reduced now with the addition of the felt insert. No further broken trigger springs in any of the 6 M&Ps I own.

[Jhp147]

Why go through all of the brain damage of asking for subjective data from shooters? Pick a schedule to proactively replace ALL of the springs in your gun that is well within the life span of the springs and stick to it. Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Especially if you put it into perspective of ruining a match that you spent a significant amount of $$$ in travel expenses to attend. If you have a history of breaking a trigger return spring at 5400 rounds, then maybe your frequency of replacing it should be half of that life? For example, I replace every single spring in my gun every 10,000 rounds regardless of how wore out they are. Doing so ensures that I will not suffer malfunctions from failed or weak springs. It also forces me to do a detailed strip, clean and inspection of the whole gun while replacing the springs to head off any other potential issues that may be cropping up.

Yes, this is my plan. Not much brain damage involved, it is interesting to me and I'm wondering if here is any common point at which people are seeing breakage, might also help someone else decide to replace early instead of waiting till too late. I guess you could replace them before every match but you can get to the point of ridiculous. I do factory spec minus rounds replacements on other guns, it just never struck me that this would need replacement as it doesn't seem to get much stress and there is no factory recommendation. It apears that I've already learned that APEX has now included the dampener, so there is some new knowledge for me already. I didn't think to write them and ASK for a replacement, I in fact told them I had a whole kit ordered (I figure replace one, replace all). Plus, I started having a sudden outbreak of weird sudden light strikes with a clean striker channel and flush set primers in a previously proven batch of reloads maybe 20-30 rounds right before the trigger spring broke. Edited March 17, 2015 by sheepdog

[Bkreutz]

~45K, 11 months, no warning signs. I replace it at ~30K now.

[missed it by that much]

I have a 9mm 4.25 with apex trigger which was done by ATEI. I won it this way last year, probably have about 1000 rounds through it, no trigger problems, but light strikes on primer would not ignite CCI, switched to winchester and no problems. Initially terrible accuracy problems tried storm lake barrel, didn't solve the issue. Won a Bar sto barrel which I had fit, solved the problem. I just ordered the extra strength (6#) striker spring to solve light strikes. Haven't tried this yet. Needless to say very frustrating. But since the cost was free and I love the feel of the gripsrecoil I put effort into solving these issues. Definitely unhappy with S&W. Before I get a barrage of grief light strikes and accuracy seem to be issues with the full size m&p. (Yes I seat the primers deep enough yes I shot groups off the bench with multiple powder/bullet weights to no avail) it now shoots about 1 12 inches at 20 yards off the bags. A friend has the same gun but about 6 or 7 years old that will put them in the same hole. Well close anyways. I attribute that to QC or lack of. But even so I love the gun. It shoots where I point

[bthoefer]

I have 2 apex comp triggers, each has around 20,000 rounds plus a bunch more dry fire. Also have one more defense/carry trigger with around 10,000 rounds plus dry fire. They are all still going strong.

I did break one defensive/carry trigger return spring, but it was installed upside down which causes the trigger spring to bind. It lasted around 5,000 rounds before breaking. Apex did replace the broken spring.

[Hallz]

With dry fire and completion shooters the variables are too great to track (imo), cleaning, debris times it has been dissembled, re assembled, type of powder and heat cycles power factor of hand loads etc. just to many variables. It's like asking a group drag racers how many miles they gets on a motor and tires.

I carry a full set of springs and extra barrel for my pistol at each match. To me, a simple tune up if you change your loads or at the end of each year/season is SOP. Replace what is suspect and get my focus back to shooting.

I have spoke to very good pistol smith that is a Master and A class shooter himself, his perspective is the M&P is a great gun but does require the springs to be checked and/or replaced 3-4 times as often as a Glock to maintain reliability.

[Jhp147]

With dry fire and completion shooters the variables are too great to track (imo), cleaning, debris times it has been dissembled, re assembled, type of powder and heat cycles power factor of hand loads etc. just to many variables. It's like asking a group drag racers how many miles they gets on a motor and tires.

I have spoke to very good pistol smith that is a Master and A class shooter himself, his perspective is the M&P is a great gun but does require the springs to be checked and/or replaced 3-4 times as often as a Glock to maintain reliability.

Hadn't thought of #1 except dry fire as a variable. I'm not sure the rest is significant overall-to me, the firing vibration is the primary stressor and the only one I would have a chance to measure. Like most folks, I carry a spare gun to a match, but have never had to use it before and rather not have to again. Interesting to hear the second part about the springs being replaced more often, not something I've ever heard and once again, this is the type of thing I'm looking for. One thing, it looks like 5400 with very little dry fire and maybe 5 total take downs is on the very light side of spring life. Edited March 18, 2015 by sheepdog

[Hallz]

Sheep dog, I bring a back up gun too, some people don't think that is practical so i just left that out to avoid the argument. Since I put KKK dropins in all my guns, i just left one of the oem barrels in my bag. The thought was if I get a squib,... Its fadter and less hassle than getting a alt gun aporoved. The mental mf of changing/blaming the gun is gone.

I will check with my smith to see if he knows why of if it is just basef on practical experience with them.

I can say that two of the guys I shoot and/or squad with shoot about 700-1000 a month with their M&P's. January and February they were having gun problems. One was a dirty striker channel, one a triger return spring, another guy was having a dead trigger due to the loop in the trigger bar was out of adjustment. I was having a hell of a time with Light strikes using the Reduced power striker spring, only fedrals were reliable, put in a factory one and no more light strikes even with CCI's. My next issue was FTF, even though my PF was the same on my 200,180 &155 loads, the 180's and some 155's would not cycle the slide back and ling enough to pick up around about every 20-50th round yet the 200's at the same power factor were perfect. Droped the recording l spring a pound and they were fine. But mentaly I was not comfortable with a 12lbs spring and a stock striker spring, bumped up my pf 2-4 points or use a slower powder and now the 13 and even the 15lbs spring work great and the gun functions perfect.

I guess my point is there are so many things people do to tune their gun to reliably run their loads, it is hard to put a boiler plate solution on it. Some may change loads and not make any adjustments to their gun because "it works" but they may be under sprung and hammering parts unknowingly as well.

[misterkhan]

I guess my point is there are so many things people do to tune their gun to reliably run their loads, it is hard to put a boiler plate solution on it. Some may change loads and not make any adjustments to their gun because "it works" but they may be under sprung and hammering parts unknowingly as well.

Well said Hallz. You also show how PF has very little to do with actual energy generated, something to keep in mind when switching bullet weights.

[Jhp147]

Got my new Apex kit from Brownells. Confirmed new spring has a felt dampener like factory version and unlike older Apex spring. It might be shaped differently, not sure on that. Installed and ran 60 or so rounds from same batch of reloads, no light strikes. Bet I'd get more than 5400 through this one but will order another one to go in way before.

Edited March 25, 2015 by sheepdog