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MGM Ironman Pistol Caliber Carbine recommendations


michael1778

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5th in Trooper, first time I didn't use a PCC in years. May have been second if not for the double spinner with rifle on 7. The only stages I found to be definitively harder without PCC were 4 and 6. I actually thought the pistol shooting was easier than it had been in a while.

2-6 were within 3% of each other in the scores. It actually shows me that within 25 yards a red dot equipped pistol is the equal of a PCC as long as you have the skill to go with it.

Edited by SinistralRifleman
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5th in Trooper, first time I didn't use a PCC in years. May have been second if not for the double spinner with rifle on 7. The only stages I found to be definitively harder without PCC were 4 and 6. I actually thought the pistol shooting was easier than it had been in a while.

2-6 were within 3% of each other in the scores. It actually shows me that within 25 yards a red dot equipped pistol is the equal of a PCC as long as you have the skill to go with it.

I would take a completely opposite observation away from the same facts. If used to it's fullest advantage the PCC allowed some of us to place higher than we would have had we just used an open pistol. I also strongly assert that the way the PCC is utilized on the stage will have a direct impact on how much benefit it can provide. If someone chooses to shoot it exactly the same as they would a pistol then there would be little gain, but if it is used to engage targets sooner, reduce the number of shooting positions, or gets hits faster because of the additional stability the extra length provides, more advantage can be levered from it.

Two people using the same information to come to opposite opinions, and no way to prove either assertion. No way to go back and and know for sure how the chips would have fallen had we used different guns, but I know that I enjoyed having the option of using the PCC and am certain that in my case it improved my finish, no way I do as well as I did on 4 with a pistol especially as I only took 1 run, I knew after my first run I was close enough to Smitty that was not worth wasting the slugs for a second run. Next year will offer more data, as long as all the other guys on team High Life are shooting trooper, so will I, and if I am shooting trooper I will use a PCC. We can debate the value of the PCC again after the 2016 match, but what are the odds you don't use one next year?

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From my point of view. Having shot Trooper 9 years in a row, and the past 5years with a PCC (MP5 with red dot). Having the PCC completely changes the match.

This year alone, I seen the advantage of a PCC on stage 9. S9 would have been a 2 gun stage. PCC for pistol and rifle sections, shotgun finish. less steps taken, one less gun to dump in the box, one less gun to pull off of a sling and load.

Triple plate racks and any target past 30yards is light years easier to hit, and faster to shoot with a PCC vs pistol.

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I would have scored better using PCC how much better is a different question. The match this year it mattered a lot less than other years, or maybe I was just on the ball more with pistol. Some years the stages dramatically favored PCC a lot more particularly when paper and steel could be shot with PCC; then you'd have like 10 clays left that had to be shotgun.

Chuck Anderson and Tyler Payne have both won the division without PCC during years where the COF was much harder. I won without (2008) and with PCC (2009). Last year I placed lower using PCC (6th).

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Chuck is faster with a glock 19 than I am with a PCC, and Mr Payne is in my eyes superhuman. I don't think Wyatt used one to whip us either. A good shooter will always put a hurt on schmucks like us.

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So are you going to come play with us next year or what?

Depends on funds this autumn, I think. I should sell some unused items to people that would give them good homes, also.

Apologies for the delayed response. I've been teaching at an intensive university camp.

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The scorpion sure looks cool, but as a gamer gun I think the short barrel and ergonomics would be a hinderance compared to a full on gamer PCC. A 15" hand guard, and a proper stock, plus magazine sharing between pistol and carbine are pretty big advantages in my eyes. There is a weight and space penalty when packing, but when it's time for shooting I like more gun, I do not see an advantage to the SBR's other than the CDI factor.

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That is a great point. I did set up a DD 9mm carbine for a shooter not too long ago and it was a great shooter. The PCC route from a Glock with a stock also sounds like a winner.

Edited by JunotFranco
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I have RO'd the first part of the Ironman for a couple years now. So I'm sure I know some of you guys by your face if not your name. I was on 8 last year (the infamous wire spools stage) and 10 this year.

If there is any one thing I have noticed about pistol carbines is their reliability, or lack thereof. I wouldn't hesitate to say that only half the carbines I see run with any sort of reliability. Some are simple malfunction clears. Some are borderline single shots.

I work in a gun store that specializes in competition gear. What I tell people all the time when they are looking for a 3 gun shotty is that first, it must be reliable. Second, it must be reliable. And 3rd, it must be reliable.

I would offer the same advice on the pistol carbine.

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