SinistralRifleman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) 5th in Trooper, first time I didn't use a PCC in years. May have been second if not for the double spinner with rifle on 7. The only stages I found to be definitively harder without PCC were 4 and 6. I actually thought the pistol shooting was easier than it had been in a while. 2-6 were within 3% of each other in the scores. It actually shows me that within 25 yards a red dot equipped pistol is the equal of a PCC as long as you have the skill to go with it. Edited June 17, 2015 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 5th in Trooper, first time I didn't use a PCC in years. May have been second if not for the double spinner with rifle on 7. The only stages I found to be definitively harder without PCC were 4 and 6. I actually thought the pistol shooting was easier than it had been in a while. 2-6 were within 3% of each other in the scores. It actually shows me that within 25 yards a red dot equipped pistol is the equal of a PCC as long as you have the skill to go with it. I would take a completely opposite observation away from the same facts. If used to it's fullest advantage the PCC allowed some of us to place higher than we would have had we just used an open pistol. I also strongly assert that the way the PCC is utilized on the stage will have a direct impact on how much benefit it can provide. If someone chooses to shoot it exactly the same as they would a pistol then there would be little gain, but if it is used to engage targets sooner, reduce the number of shooting positions, or gets hits faster because of the additional stability the extra length provides, more advantage can be levered from it. Two people using the same information to come to opposite opinions, and no way to prove either assertion. No way to go back and and know for sure how the chips would have fallen had we used different guns, but I know that I enjoyed having the option of using the PCC and am certain that in my case it improved my finish, no way I do as well as I did on 4 with a pistol especially as I only took 1 run, I knew after my first run I was close enough to Smitty that was not worth wasting the slugs for a second run. Next year will offer more data, as long as all the other guys on team High Life are shooting trooper, so will I, and if I am shooting trooper I will use a PCC. We can debate the value of the PCC again after the 2016 match, but what are the odds you don't use one next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nguySBR1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 From my point of view. Having shot Trooper 9 years in a row, and the past 5years with a PCC (MP5 with red dot). Having the PCC completely changes the match. This year alone, I seen the advantage of a PCC on stage 9. S9 would have been a 2 gun stage. PCC for pistol and rifle sections, shotgun finish. less steps taken, one less gun to dump in the box, one less gun to pull off of a sling and load. Triple plate racks and any target past 30yards is light years easier to hit, and faster to shoot with a PCC vs pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would have scored better using PCC how much better is a different question. The match this year it mattered a lot less than other years, or maybe I was just on the ball more with pistol. Some years the stages dramatically favored PCC a lot more particularly when paper and steel could be shot with PCC; then you'd have like 10 clays left that had to be shotgun. Chuck Anderson and Tyler Payne have both won the division without PCC during years where the COF was much harder. I won without (2008) and with PCC (2009). Last year I placed lower using PCC (6th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Chuck is faster with a glock 19 than I am with a PCC, and Mr Payne is in my eyes superhuman. I don't think Wyatt used one to whip us either. A good shooter will always put a hurt on schmucks like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 This schmuck wants a PCC and a spot on the High Life squad next year! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm enjoying all of the experience-based discussion here. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 So are you going to come play with us next year or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 So are you going to come play with us next year or what? Depends on funds this autumn, I think. I should sell some unused items to people that would give them good homes, also. Apologies for the delayed response. I've been teaching at an intensive university camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunotFranco Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Scorpion EVO SBR, you will not go wrong with it. Flat shooting, affordable and 30 rd mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The scorpion sure looks cool, but as a gamer gun I think the short barrel and ergonomics would be a hinderance compared to a full on gamer PCC. A 15" hand guard, and a proper stock, plus magazine sharing between pistol and carbine are pretty big advantages in my eyes. There is a weight and space penalty when packing, but when it's time for shooting I like more gun, I do not see an advantage to the SBR's other than the CDI factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunotFranco Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) That is a great point. I did set up a DD 9mm carbine for a shooter not too long ago and it was a great shooter. The PCC route from a Glock with a stock also sounds like a winner. Edited June 27, 2015 by JunotFranco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 They announced a Kriss 9mm this year at shot show. You'll have a glock mag capable sbr with CDI factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah, the most reliable name in shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 And good luck finding one. I emailed and they were prettyslow to respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birddog6424 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have RO'd the first part of the Ironman for a couple years now. So I'm sure I know some of you guys by your face if not your name. I was on 8 last year (the infamous wire spools stage) and 10 this year. If there is any one thing I have noticed about pistol carbines is their reliability, or lack thereof. I wouldn't hesitate to say that only half the carbines I see run with any sort of reliability. Some are simple malfunction clears. Some are borderline single shots. I work in a gun store that specializes in competition gear. What I tell people all the time when they are looking for a 3 gun shotty is that first, it must be reliable. Second, it must be reliable. And 3rd, it must be reliable. I would offer the same advice on the pistol carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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