single stack

[zzt]

dervin, I'd say shoot 45ACP if you reload. I just don't see the advantage of 40 in SS, except maybe a slight cost advantage for components. Forgetting gun models, here is what I think of the two rounds for USPSA SS. You are limited to 8 rounds per mag for Major, so 40 and 45 are equal in that regard. You have to learn to shoot well or you'll be doing standing mag changes.

40 brass is easier to come by than 45, and less expensive. However, you waste a lot because a lot of it has crimped primers and was shot in Glocks. I bought police range pickup 40 for 3 cents each. I don't push through resize and my press has problems with crimped in primers. So I loose about 20% of the brass for those reasons. 45 brass is more costly, but there are no defective cases. They all seem perfect. I have over 7,000 once-fired on hand (just in case) and the 2,000 I've previously used were fine. Since 45 is a low pressure cartridge, the brass lasts forever as long as you don't use it.

45 makes a bigger hole, and sometimes that gets you a C when a 40 would be a D.

Here is another thing to think about. What do you actually want to do in competition? Are you like me and shoot for fun? I know I'm never going to run with the big boys, and I don't care. In SS major, you have to be accurate and fast. In 8-round substages, you have to have 8 hits so you can reload while moving to the next. Miss a target and you are down 10 points unless you do a standing reload and shoot. Hit a no shoot and you're down 20 unless you do the same. One messes up your point score, the other your time.

Here is something to consider if your nature is competitive, but you are not so accurate. A 9mm 1911. Yes, you will be scored minor, but the reduced recoil will allow you to shoot faster and more accurately. Plus you have 10 rounds in the mag, so if you do miss or hit a target you should not have, you have two extra rounds to correct the mistake. Speed wins in USPSA. It is the most important component in scoring. Here is one example. On a 24 round stage I had 23 A and 1 C. My buddy had all C and D hits, but was 5 seconds faster on the stage and outscored me. The longer the stage, the more important speed is.

So a 9mm 1911 may be a viable option for you. I'll tell you that knowing there are extra rounds in the mag is quite liberating and contributes to more speed. If you have to use one of them, it's way quicker than a reload.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Added: I type very, very slowly, so I read Mike's post and find we are still on opposite sides.

Edited March 11, 2015 by zzt

[zzt]

Mike, I reload 40 and 45. The heads are $2 more per 500 in 45, the primers cost the same and I use 1gr more powder for 45. That is a minuscule reloading cost difference. I'll admit to being biased. I love 45 ACP. I love 1911s. The only reason I shoot 40 is there really isn't another viable choice in Limited.

[thermobollocks]

Comedy option: STI Nitro 10.

The cool part about 1911s is you have a ton of options. Most of them you can have outfitted with the various amenities you like -- ambi or standard safety, aggressive or smooth texturing, fat or thin grips, whatever kind of Dawsons you want. The more interesting part is what happens around the 10, 20, or 50,000 round marks. There's an excellent writeup from a Springfield owner about the small parts replacement that he's gone through. It seems like to play this game you're going to have to spend some time at the gunsmith one way or another, whether it's getting the thing throated for wadcutters, dovetailed for a different sight pattern, hit with some sweet serrations, or the trigger worked on.

Personally, I have a mostly factory Sig tacops. The night sights are a poor choice for competition, and the thing took a while to eat round nose ammo reliably. But, now, it runs, and I was able to get some grips that allow me to reload rather competitively. .45 ammo is a kitten to make, and I'm not invested in .40 much at all. Also, He-Man requires you to use .45. But, I expect somewhere down the line I'll have to have someone smarter than me fit it with high quality internals and clean up the trigger. It's a mechanical device, and it will fail on me...eventually.

[mach1soldier]

In my 6 months of experience, I only liked shooting minor at the florida open. It had a ton of options when it came to shooting stages and shooting minor was pretty sweet.

Every other match I have shot, I preferred major scoring. Just something to consider.

[MikeRush]

Just to clarify for the major or minor question-

As zzt pointed out, major provides a scoring advantage but you are limited to 8 rounds per magazine. You can do this in the 40, but because the magazines are 9 or 10 round capacity they are much easier to seat while loaded to 8 than the equivalent 45 mag.

Minor has less recoil, and a capacity advantage- you are allowed 10 per magazine. You can also do this in 40. So you have one gun for major or minor power factor, and can switch by simply switching ammo. This makes it more versatile and allows you to experiment with both.

I don't see why someone starting out wouldn't pick the 40. Even if you take the time to pick up every piece of 45 to mitigate the cost, you will still be paying for it at lost brass matches etc.

As far as brass goes, if you use a progressive loader and load 45 be prepared to spend time sorting brass. Recent manufacture brass tends to be small pistol primers so you have to change the priming system and stock two kinds of primers to use all of the brass, or you abandon or trade off one primer size or the other. It is annoying. As far as cost goes, BBI and most places will charge you an extra $15 or more per k for 230 gr 45 bullets vs 180 gr 40 bullets. Used brass is more than double the cost in 45. Primer and powder are the same.

With 40, I run any and all of it through the U die, and have no issues with bulges. No extra sorting or stocking two primers.

With 9 you will run into a lot more crimped primers than 40.

45 tends to use heavier bullets, which can have a softer or more drawn out recoil impulse, but once I started shooting a lot I came to prefer the 40. The extra diameter is a double edged sword, as it will more often break the perf of the next scoring ring, but will also break the perf of a no shoot just as easily. Only place I'd really see it as an advantage would be shooting upper A zone on uspsa target, as you would wind up with more As and less Bs.

Fortunately we have a free market where we can pick the gun and caliber we want! Good luck with whatever you choose.

One thing ZZT and I agree on, is that you need to consider your intended use for the gun in the purchase. I'd actually suggest the opposite relationship between shooting style and power factor choice, as accurate shooters shooting minor will score mostly alphas and not have a scoring detriment while reaping the benefits of reduced recoil and extra capacity. Fast shooters who are less accurate tend to benefit from major as they get extra points for hits that are not alphas.

Either way, 40 lets you do both!

[wsmitty01]

I shoot a Para Pro Comp 40,,right out of the box except for magwell, and the VZ grips are awesome. It is very tight and accurate, built to compete!!

[shootin-blanks]

Also, with the extra space in the bottom of the .40/10mm mags (loaded major to 8 rounds) slide forward reloads FLY in the gun,

compared to almost having to beat them in the gun with fully loaded .45 mags.

[zzt]

For those of you having problems seating 45 ACP mags with a round in the chamber, try Wilson ETMs. Problem solved. For those of you who have the problem with the Wilson 47D 10-round mags, the fix is simple. Replace the follower only with the Tripp Research Hybrid follower and they click right in. https://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

[MikeRush]

For those of you having problems seating 45 ACP mags with a round in the chamber, try Wilson ETMs. Problem solved. For those of you who have the problem with the Wilson 47D 10-round mags, the fix is simple. Replace the follower only with the Tripp Research Hybrid follower and they click right in. https://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

If you watch my 2013 A1 video you will see the ETMs can still be difficult to seat. They have more room than the 47D, but with cast bullets a lot of that give is taken up. Not saying you can't seat them, because you can, but it takes a much harder hit than a mag downloaded by 1 round. Either way its not a dealbreaker. Just another plus to the 40.

Some people prefer 9, some prefer 45, and some like 40. All are viable choices, 40 just gives you more options. National champ and a number of top level shooters have switched to forty. May simplify logistics. It all depends on what you want! I wish I had started with a Trojan in 40, but that is just me.

[copecowboy22]

I shoot 45 in single stack with Wilson ETM's. I've never had an issue seating a mag. I'm using cast bullets loaded a lil long for 45.

[Mikethor]

.45 is just plain fun to shoot regardless of the extra expense! I shoot both a Sig Tacops and Dan Wesson Marksman and both are extremely accurate. I use Cobra Tripp mags and the only time I have seating issues is when my brain fades. More and more are moving to 9mm 1911 for the reasons already outlined but I'm already set up for .45 and could not justify the expense to change to 9mm. Shoot both and see which you like is all I can offer.

[amish_rabbi]

I'm with mike, .40 is the way to go for. Pretty much free brass that I never have to care about how much I get back FTW. The major/minor thing is also good, but I have a 9mm gun as well so I never bother with shooting .40 minor

I wish Dan wesson still made a gun in .40

[greyhounder]

Have shot competitively in SS in 9,40 and 45.also find the 40 the best of both worlds. Have a Sig Elite in 40 and just picked up a STI Sentry in 40, planning to use that as main gun this year.

I personally would lean more toward the STI. In 1911s the 40 seems to be lost step child and a lot of companies don't plan on making them except special order. A shame, Sig ALLEGEDLY says they are coming out with the competition ready MAX in 40 but we all might be retired from the game before that happens.

[Rob01]

I have an STI Trojan in 9mm and .40 and have a great time shooting both. Use the 9mm for IDPA ESP and the .40 for USPSA SS. I don't load .45 so the 9mm and .40 work well as I use the same powder and primers for both. I didn't want to get into another caliber with the .45 and the .40 can do everything I need.

[Horus]

Good read guys, since I'm trying to decide if 9 or 40.

[motosapiens]

I wonder if crimed-in 40 primers and hard-seating 45 mags are a regional problem. My tripp and CMC 45 mags seat very easily, and I've yet to ever see a crimped in 40 primer (and i have tens of thousands of 40 cases).

[copecowboy22]

I wonder if crimed-in 40 primers and hard-seating 45 mags are a regional problem. My tripp and CMC 45 mags seat very easily, and I've yet to ever see a crimped in 40 primer (and i have tens of thousands of 40 cases).

I hadn't seen any either, then after reading this thread I found 3-4 while loading the other day. Reminds me of SPP 45

[motosapiens]

I wonder if crimed-in 40 primers and hard-seating 45 mags are a regional problem. My tripp and CMC 45 mags seat very easily, and I've yet to ever see a crimped in 40 primer (and i have tens of thousands of 40 cases).

I hadn't seen any either, then after reading this thread I found 3-4 while loading the other day. Reminds me of SPP 45

i do get small primers every now and then. I'm saving them up and I'll load them all at once for a lost brass match in some other city.

Edited March 18, 2015 by motosapiens

[copecowboy22]

I wonder if crimed-in 40 primers and hard-seating 45 mags are a regional problem. My tripp and CMC 45 mags seat very easily, and I've yet to ever see a crimped in 40 primer (and i have tens of thousands of 40 cases).

I hadn't seen any either, then after reading this thread I found 3-4 while loading the other day. Reminds me of SPP 45

i do get small primers every now and then. I'm saving them up and I'll load them all at once for a lost brass match in some other city.

That's what I'm doing, I'm going to be loading for SS Nats in the next few weeks. So if your working the match I'm sorry!

[kimberacp]

FWIW, I have a Para Pro Comp 40 SS I bought last year before May to take advantage of the 100 dollar rebate. Now I live in California and getting 40sw SS guns now is impossible! That being said, the Para Pro Comp 40, is a good gun. I have shot some very decent groups at 25 yds with it.

I use the same load of 180 extreme bullets with 4.8 TG, 1.180 OAL in both this SS gun and my limited wide body guns.

Now, since I bought this Para Pro Comp 40, I did fit a new Fusion LW trigger (stock trigger just rattle around in the frame and rear of the bow was crooked), changed ignition parts to EE hammer/sear/disco, the stock disco was getting rubbed by the case rim as the magazine was loaded, added EB thumb safety, a EGW slide stop, worked the extractor hook, added a magwell, am using Burner grips and using Tripp/Cory mags.

Another flaw with this gun, is that MS housing pin holes do not line up to each other on the frame, easy fix but still a flaw I wasn't expecting.

Again, FWIW....I was in the same camp as to 40 or 45? After doing the switch, I will never again shoot 45!!!!!! There are many reasons and a few have been stated here already but am GLAD I did the switch!!!!

[zzt]

Hard seating 1911 mags are a problem with certain pistols that have a mag catch that holds the mags higher than spec. STI for example. On the other hand, you will have a feeding problem from some mags designed for the high mag catches if you use them with lower or "normal" mag catches. Tripp Cobra II mags come to mind.

If you buy your 40sw brass from a Detective who gets it from a police firing range, you are going to get a LOT of crimped primers, usually Federal. Plus a lot of it will be Glocked.

If you get your 45 ACP brass from an indoor firing range that makes you buy the ammo you shoot from them, you are going to get a boat load of Federal and Blazer SPP brass.

[jnr88]

I have a Dan Wesson Pointman in 9 with a factory 40 top. I can shoot major or minor. I think the Wesson is a step up in quality. You could get a Heritage and the factory will make you a 9 top as well. All stainless, Ed Brown internals and no MIM parts. This is as good as it gets. JMO.

[motosapiens]

If you buy your 40sw brass from a Detective who gets it from a police firing range, you are going to get a LOT of crimped primers, usually Federal. Plus a lot of it will be Glocked.

If you get your 45 ACP brass from an indoor firing range that makes you buy the ammo you shoot from them, you are going to get a boat load of Federal and Blazer SPP brass.

thanks for the mag info.

thankfully my agency uses winchester ranger ammo.

thankfullier, between lee dies and a cz limited gun, I've never had the slightest issue with glocked brass.

[jsg]

Unless you already own some .45 guns, get a 9mm or 40.

I have had 45 SS guns for many years. I also reload for them all. With that being said, I bought a 40 Trojan for USPSA and I shoot a 9mm RIA in IDPA (and sometimes USPSA).

I have always seen 40 ammo on the shelves and it makes major while costing less than 45.

I can almost always get free 40 or 9mm brass from the range. People seem to catch the 45 brass before it hits the ground.

40 (200 Xtreme bullet, 3.0 titegroup, 1.180 oal) actually shoots noticeably softer than my 124 grain 9mm load.

If you get a limited gun, it is very likely it will be in 40. Having your SS and Limited run the same ammo is nice.

I would warn against 9mm in USPSA unless you are getting A hits with speed on a regular basis. However if you can get the speed and stay accurate, it is a fine choice.

Any one of the three will work but the 40 can be super soft with 9 or 10 round mags if you shoot IDPA or want to shoot minor USPSA. On the other hand it can shoot a major load just as soft as a 45 if you reload.

I doubt you will regret any of the three calibers if the gun runs and you get hits.

[Revo357]

I've got the STI Spartan which is my single stack division gun. The Trojan does seem to be nicer in quality. Although I have a Para as well, I'd go with the Trojan.