Ron Ankeny Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hi Rob. Glad to see you are posting on the forum. As you know, I haven't shot "seriously" for 6-7 years. I also haven't watched you shoot at a major match. However, I have seen you shoot local matches from your "day one". FWIW, one of these days you are going to shoot your own match, at your own skill level, with the only shot that matters being the next shot. You should smoke us all like the proverbial cheap cigar. If I feel ambitious, I'll throw my wheel chair and my walker in the back of my truck and see you Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 don't know how to link to another thread but it's here and its called "how robust is your mental program" ... Good deal Nimitz. Below is the link to your Topic http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211733#entry2354435 thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 well the fun continues ... just got back from shooting an 8-stage local match at Volusia where the Nationals will be next week and in the rimfire match I shot a new personal best for the 2nd straight week. Even with stubbing my toe a bit on Showdown of all stages & eating a 3 sec penalty I shot a 90.03 sec match which is 2.5 secs faster then my personal best last week. I decided not to shoot open at this match since I reinjured my left wrist again slightly and decided to give it a break for a few days ... in all likelihood I'll be getting surgery on it after next week to repair the torn cartilage ... Since I know I haven't just magically gotten better in the last few weeks I have to conclude that the major changes I made to my mental program are why I seeing my match results begin to line up with what I do in training .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Try this http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/3442-block-vs-random-practice/ Its from doodie, so what.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hi Rob. Glad to see you are posting on the forum. As you know, I haven't shot "seriously" for 6-7 years. I also haven't watched you shoot at a major match. However, I have seen you shoot local matches from your "day one". FWIW, one of these days you are going to shoot your own match, at your own skill level, with the only shot that matters being the next shot. You should smoke us all like the proverbial cheap cigar. If I feel ambitious, I'll throw my wheel chair and my walker in the back of my truck and see you Sunday. Ron, I see you are a long time Enos contributor. Cool! I just started 2 weeks ago as you saw. I am down in Mesa, AZ for the month of March so will miss you this Sunday in Shoshoni! Hope all is well after your ankle problems. I wonder if Enos folks know that you were the first shooter in USPSA to become M class in ALL of the divisions! I love telling that about you! Shot a high round count match in Kingman, AZ today. Fun time. Working on getting out of my own way, which as you know is my main weakness - self sabotage. I did great today due to all of the effort working on simply seeing every shot, shooting at my own speed, as fast as I can SEE what I need to. Another match at Rio Salado in the morning, hope to continue the momentum. Thanks for posting Ron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 well the fun continues ... just got back from shooting an 8-stage local match at Volusia where the Nationals will be next week and in the rimfire match I shot a new personal best for the 2nd straight week. Even with stubbing my toe a bit on Showdown of all stages & eating a 3 sec penalty I shot a 90.03 sec match which is 2.5 secs faster then my personal best last week. I decided not to shoot open at this match since I reinjured my left wrist again slightly and decided to give it a break for a few days ... in all likelihood I'll be getting surgery on it after next week to repair the torn cartilage ... Since I know I haven't just magically gotten better in the last few weeks I have to conclude that the major changes I made to my mental program are why I seeing my match results begin to line up with what I do in training .... Ken, you are on a roll, boy! Keep it up, WHATEVER you are doing! Man, I hope your wrist injury does not ruin your mo.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Progress Update on my Journey towards mental Management during match performance. My Sunday club match at Rio Salado confirmed I am making big progress with my mental game now, as my "success" carried thru from the Saturday match the day before. I won the Saturday match (though there was not a lot of competition in Limited - second place was at 80% of me) and shot what I believe would be an 82% performance had there been a Top Tier GM to compare to. That is where I am supposed to be at my actual current skill level. Two misses due to upside down targets on top of others, shot 92.64% of points possible, even with the two Mikes. So accuracy was perfect for my skill and speed. I just focused on SEEING everything I needed to see on every shot throughout the match and it worked. A significant breakthrough for me, to consistently accomplish that in the whole match. Not perfect or even close to it yet, but a clear departure, finally, from my erroneous mental mindset in match performances. This followed thru into the Sunday match the following day, despite a couple of failures on two poppers in one stage which cost me some wasted time. Brain fades where I failed to have the necessary vision for the shots. But I refocused immediately and salvaged the stage. Still, won that stage! I am excited and cannot wait to test myself on a steel match this afternoon, with my ONLY intention being to shoot at my own ability on each and every shot. And NOT get carried away with any conscious override trying to go fast. I usually screw these steel matches all up because I see and hear Open GMs shoot them and then unintentionally try to mimic their performances, which is always a disaster for me with iron sights. Then two more club matches this weekend. The Saturday match was a special high round count club match at the Mojave Green Shooters, Kingman, AZ - 100 miles east of Vegas Saturday. Video link directly below. Rio Salado Club match Sunday - I took second, at 88% of the winning GM, but would be right at about 80% against a top-tier GM had there been one to compare to. Video link directly below. Edited March 17, 2015 by Robco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 When you learn how to shoot a match, it TURBOCHARGES your training. All of those gains you earn in practice will be waiting for you when you get out of your own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. Case in point: I shot a state match last weekend, and basically tanked the first 7 of 8 stages from rushing, not rehearsing enough, etc. On the last stage, I decided to focus on the mental prep, rehearsed the stage about 15-20 times, and then shot it with the goal of calling every shot. As I went through the stage, it felt like I was going in slow motion. But when I finished the stage and the SO called out the time, it turned out that I had beaten the fastest raw time of the day by about 4 seconds (15 vs. 19). This isn't the first time I've experienced results like this, but for some reason, I still haven't gotten to the point where I can consistently trust myself and just shoot. I don't know why. It's frustrating because I have enough personal experience to know it works, but the consistency and trust still isn't there. I've started running my mental program during dry fire and live fire practice. Hopefully this will help. Edited May 7, 2015 by FTDMFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. It's probably neither here nor there, but there's a psychological reason for the perception of slowed time. Essentially the REMEMBERED sense of slowed time is an affectation of memory created by an enhanced degree of awareness at the time of the experience. Basically, if your brain is recording twice the normal amount of data, when it is replayed back as a memory, the mind won't necessarily play that double-data at normal speed but rather at half speed to accommodate the larger amount of data delivery. So.... If you're remembering stages in slo-mo then that is the best verification you can get that your competition awareness is exactly where it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 When you learn how to shoot a match, it TURBOCHARGES your training. All of those gains you earn in practice will be waiting for you when you get out of your own way. Exactly right Steve. I am finally getting out of my own way! Just made a similar comment in another post: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211478#entry2389664 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. Case in point: I shot a state match last weekend, and basically tanked the first 7 of 8 stages from rushing, not rehearsing enough, etc. On the last stage, I decided to focus on the mental prep, rehearsed the stage about 15-20 times, and then shot it with the goal of calling every shot. As I went through the stage, it felt like I was going in slow motion. But when I finished the stage and the SO called out the time, it turned out that I had beaten the fastest raw time of the day by about 4 seconds (15 vs. 19). This isn't the first time I've experienced results like this, but for some reason, I still haven't gotten to the point where I can consistently trust myself and just shoot. I don't know why. It's frustrating because I have enough personal experience to know it works, but the consistency and trust still isn't there. I've started running my mental program during dry fire and live fire practice. Hopefully this will help. FTDMFR - This has been my own experience too, especially the frustration of repeatedly failing to trust my own game. I found that, of course, the first step is to actually develop the skills you can be confident in. Second, getting enough match experience to eliminate the negatives of mental errors due to match pressure we impose on ourselves. Third, have the COURAGE to actually shoot a match at your own capability to prove the results to yourself. This has been the hard thing for me. I invest so much time and money and heart into improving my USPSA performance and skills, that I inadvertently assure my own failure, due to the inevitable "trying" too hard on match day. I hunger for wins, so winning has become too important and thus dominates my mind, even though I KNOW that will sabotage my match performances. So, on some occasions, like when I am not feeling good on match day (due to being ill or tired, etc), I mentally "surrender" my ambitions and mentally accept that I do not really have any reason to EXPECT to do well that day. And magically, these often turn out to be among my best match performances. From this I proved to myself that I was getting in my own way every match, by piling on too much pressure on myself regarding the outcome of the match. "Letting go" was the final key. I have finally accomplished doing so consistently in club matches. So next step is to carry this same mindset and mentality into bigger matches, where I would naturally put more pressure on myself. Baby steps. Here is another post on the same subject: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211478#entry2387695 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) I just focused on SEEING everything I needed to see on every shot throughout the match and it worked. The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. I just focused on SEEING everything I needed to see on every shot throughout the match and it worked. The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. I just focused on SEEING everything I needed to see on every shot throughout the match and it worked. The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. How long do you want to struggle with this? You know it works... and I've not found anything that works better, nor has anyone else. (who is willing to share at least) Now start turning weakness into strength in training, then keep training guy at home while you send match guy to the match with ONE job to do. Then send me a check. Edited May 8, 2015 by Steve Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmob50 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Good tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I just focused on SEEING everything I needed to see on every shot throughout the match and it worked. The biggest struggle for me is consistently accepting the fact that, when I am exercising visual patience and truly calling every shot, my perception of time alters and everything feels GLACIALLY slow. How long do you want to struggle with this? You know it works... and I've not found anything that works better, nor has anyone else. (who is willing to share at least) Now start turning weakness into strength in training, then keep training guy at home while you send match guy to the match with ONE job to do. Then send me a check. Steve - that is exactly what I do now, and tell my trainees to do too. Truly focusing on the shooting of each shot, squeezes out any other conscious thought/interruption and as Brian says "turns up your level of vision." Speed comes from efficiency, whether in transitions of all types, target acquisition, one shot one hit on steel, confidence due to calling each shot, etc. Even many advanced shooters believe there are secrets and techniques/mechanics that will speed their performances up, and they fail to learn the real truth = EFFICIENCY is the "secret." Easier to save a half second makeup shot, by investing 5/100ths more time letting the sights settle for the first shot than to make up time speeding up splits by 1/100th of a second. The courage to just shoot a match, as OURSELVES, is really the key here. We cannot be any faster or more accurate today, than we ARE. TRYING anything including going faster, in a match, is a recipe for failure. I think this is the primary error most shooters make - and I sure made/still make - is having the thinking backwards. Practice is for pushing and trying and experimenting, matches are for executing within our own capability level. Get this reversed and all of our frustrations are simply explained. On a related note, I believe most shooters focus way too much on figuring out the "cutest" way to shoot a stage and that becomes their main focus, squeezing out focusing on their shooting. Better to shoot it the most comfortable way, even if it is simple and boring, or apparently slower, and get all good hits with no big errors, than to TRY to pull off the "faster" more complicated way of shooting it and get bad hits, errors and confusion. Shooting the VA/MD Sectional tomorrow with my wife, 28 year old son and my business partner and his 16 year old son. I intend to make this my best big match performance ever, and the key to doing so will be shooting within my own actual capability on every shot and stage. If I do, I know I will end up at 85% or better of Phil Strader or whoever wins Limited. Not a doubt in my mind. I just have to trust myself and be myself tomorrow. We will see how I manage myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Rob: how did the match go? I need to live through others shooting since I can't shoot for myself .... Edited May 19, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Rob: how did the match go? I need to live through others shooting since I can't shoot for myself .... Hey Ken. I understand how you feel, hope you are coming along well with your healing. Don't hurt yourself rushing it! Well, I definitely shot my best match ever at the VA-MD section championship Saturday. Had a couple freak hiccups on Stage 1 and 2 (edged a popper I saw start to fall so left, and then had to come back to re-shoot it, and knocked my safety on when shooting weak hand). Would have actually WON the match if not for those little problems. Ended up 4th in Limited, but only 7 points from 2nd place. Shot 92% of points possible, no penalties, and took only 16% more time than Dave Sevigny. I ended up at 94.8% finish, but Strader no-showed so no top GMs in limited to compare/compete with. Eddie Gammons would have won pretty easily but he got rained out and was not able to makeup the missing stages the next day. So I would have been 5th place and as it was, was beaten out of 2nd and 3rd place by an A and a B class! Sandbaggers! Ha! Using some creative interpolation math and analysis, my performance would likely be at 84% of top GMs had they shot the match for comparison. That is almost a full, huge 10% JUMP from my past two year rut in big matches! So very pleased with that. When looking at the unofficial, combined overall standings, I am at 87% of Sevigny based on match points (of course he shot minor PF). And it is all simply due to mental control, getting out of my own way finally. Here is the Practiscore Results link https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=8a23f842-672b-48df-9570-5924d8d8a5c3 I could have done better and am anxious to work on doing so. Shooting the Oregon State Championship this Saturday and then the Idaho Section Championship a week later. Will see if I can continue my progress in them. Confident I will. I am shooting my own match, at my own comfortable but aggressive pace, and achieving the right mix of speed and accuracy. Here is my match video if anyone is interested. Still a lot of work to do on my game, my friend. I am not sure whether you, or me will be the first to become a GM after age 55! Edited May 20, 2015 by Robco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 that's outstanding news! Once I'm allowed to start shooting again you'll need to stop shooting for the same period of time so that I can catch up ... . That's the only thing that would be fair on our quest to be GMs ... at least I can still do my mental program training and vision training so i don't feel like I'm doing nothing ... My PT is very happy with my progress so at least the healing part is going well too .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 dude, you finished 517 pts ahead of the 2nd place senior ... talka about a sand bagger! We'll need to see your AARP card before the next match ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 that's outstanding news! Once I'm allowed to start shooting again you'll need to stop shooting for the same period of time so that I can catch up ... . That's the only thing that would be fair on our quest to be GMs ... at least I can still do my mental program training and vision training so i don't feel like I'm doing nothing ... My PT is very happy with my progress so at least the healing part is going well too .... Ha! Well, as I have learned, VISUAL skill is the most important thing in our sport. So take advantage of this down time to train your vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) dude, you finished 517 pts ahead of the 2nd place senior ... talka about a sand bagger! We'll need to see your AARP card before the next match ... Yeah, a young crowd there I guess! Out here in Wyoming, or in Arizona, the average age of shooters is probably 45! With a lot in their 70s or older. So we have a chance at learning this game, Ken! I felt 56 a day after the match though! Edited May 20, 2015 by Robco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 we have an interesting mix of 30 somethings and 60 somethings here locally but I've never believed my age has any impact on achieving the goals I've set ... that's just making excuses which basically guarantees you'll never reach your goals ... when I look at a shooter who is better than me and try to figurew out why, their age is not a consideration ... I do make allowances and adjustments for my age so that I can still succeed but that's it ... like taking some extra time off after long matches that maybe i wouldn't have had to do when i was younger but i just consider that being smart, not a hindrance ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robco Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 we have an interesting mix of 30 somethings and 60 somethings here locally but I've never believed my age has any impact on achieving the goals I've set ... that's just making excuses which basically guarantees you'll never reach your goals ... when I look at a shooter who is better than me and try to figurew out why, their age is not a consideration ... I do make allowances and adjustments for my age so that I can still succeed but that's it ... like taking some extra time off after long matches that maybe i wouldn't have had to do when i was younger but i just consider that being smart, not a hindrance ... I agree, to a point. This sport does require a certain amount of agility, to use a particular term, and the more agile the more advantageous to a point. And I am much less agile than I would like to be, and was in the past. That slows me down and I know it, probably mostly because I have not made any effort to workout and condition myself, yet! So my departures are weaker and less aggressive, and so is my movement in general, all because I am "afraid" of hurting myself. I believe, since I have no real infirmities, that all I need to do to remedy this is workout and run till I strengthen my lower body enough to be tougher and develop the confidence that I will not pull a muscle if I move more aggressively. I am starting this push again this week, as a priority in my shooting game training. Other than that, eyesight and cognitive ability also deteriorates with age, and that probably starts for most folks in their 40's. It is not safe to take testosterone if it is not medically indicated, so age matters. To some limited extent, and degree, older folks can compensate for their inferior physical capabilities, with superior mental game, knowledge, training, etc. But we are ONLY compensating, keeping up, in non-physical ways. Blake Miguez once told me, that I needed to be realistic about how far I can go, given my age! Though is pissed me off, I had to agree (His dad, Steve is older than me, so Blake has that for a reference I guess, and I am considerably far past Steve's performance level now, already). Anyway, If I could, and WILL roll back the years thru conditioning work, I have NO doubt that my match performance will benefit. And the good thing, it is a win-win, both my shooting and my general life will benefit. Let's do it old man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I'm an A-class shooter on the journey to M, so take my input for what it's worth based on a ton of reading and learning I've been doing lately to try and understand my own inner workings better. One thing I wanted to comment on: In your first post, you said "Trying, is by definition, a conscious override." I think more completely it should read "Trying is, by definition, letting your self-image use your conscious to override your sub-conscious to try and accomplish something your subconscious cannot yet do." Your "actual" skill level is, by definition, what your subconscious is capable of. It's no wonder trying never works; you're purposefully forcing the three circles of conscious, sub-conscious and self-image out of balance. Self-image puffs out his chest and says "Hey conscious, let's be hot s^^t this stage...try really hard, but remember you can only do one thing at a time." Then your sub-conscious gets trampled on and never has a chance to take over, all while your conscious mind frantically tries to serialize the hundred things you have to do in a stage and get them done in full panic mode. Remember, multi-tasking is a myth. If you strive to balance the three circles during your match, you WILL shoot at your skill level in that match. After all, your skill level at a match IS your skill level, whatever that is, but it always takes into account ego and desire, which are masterful at upsetting balance. We use our conscious mind in practice because we're iterating individual tasks in isolation to build myelin (Thank you Mr. Anderson) that guides the sub-conscious. So my thinking is, to perform at higest skill level in a match, investigate techniques that give your conscious mind something to do, and keep your self-image in check by not trying to exceed yourself, but to instead be yourself and accept that. Zen....Balance....Peace. For me personally, I've committed to not looking at the Nook during the match. I don't want to see the scoreboard because it will cause me to focus on something I cannot control. That encourages my self-image to engage my conscious and now I'm out of whack. I've also committed to eliminating any negative thought or speech about my performance or my environment. I love this stuff...I would never have thought about things like this if it weren't for this sport! My Zen $0.02 for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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