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Sandbagging question


BDA45

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I recently took 2nd place in a state championship match (MM ESP) which automatically bumped me up to SS. My gun is an XDM 9MM 4.5 which is both ESP and SSP legal. Im currently classified SS in ESP and MM in SSP. I've been getting a lot of flack from our match director and other shooters as far as shooting MM in SSP. Am I really sandbagging? I "technically" don't feel I am because I didn't classify a SS in SSP; I became a SS in ESP by "winning" AFTER I classified MM in both ESP and SSP. Am I technically "cheating" with the rules?

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No, you are not cheating, I think they are giving you a hard time, hopefully jokingly.

Where did your score place you amongst the Sharpshooters in that state match?

Where do you normally place against sharpshooters in your local matches?

Some people just don't shoot a classifier very well, kind of like when some people don't do well on standardized tests.

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First, congratulations. Second, doesn't sound like sandbagging to me. I don't think your match bump applies to a division you did not actively shoot in that match. We give each other a hard time about sandbagging, but a lot of people just don't shoot the classifier well. Whether it's due to nerves or the fact that a lot of people struggle with the longer shots. The bottom line is, your class is whatever HQ says your class is.

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Not sandbagging at all. As stated, classifier and match results often do not match up. If a match happens to hit your "sweet spot" of skills and you have a good day, it works out for you. Like it obviously did. Congrats on your 2nd place finish.

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Sandbagging is not cheating, it's not against the rules! :)

Honestly, are you improving drastically or are you just competing for fun. If your moving up, rocking out class wins, it will catch up to you, if not maybe MM is where you belong. I have known many folks who changed divisions, because honestly you moved up one, and your in no way competitive in that division.

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I liked the equity ruling and I'm glad it stayed. If you are MM or SS and winning your club match beating EX and MA then that might raise and eyebrow.

Really, I've been called a sandbagger in the past and here is what I had to say about it, "That may be true, but if I am doing it right, I'll only do it once!"

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Not only is it not sandbagging, but why does anyone care? Are they giving out trophies at your local matches? I only look to see how I do overall anyway. I've never been a fan of Lewis scoring and placing.

BTW, your post would have been a lot faster to read if your class and division abbreviations had been capitalized.

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I shot in the 2007 IDPA Nat's.

I was entered as SSP, Sharpshooter. I won my class and got the bump to Expert.

However, if you looked closer at the results, there was a guy who entered as MM in SSP.

He beat me.

Now that, IMO, is pretty blatant sandbagging.

I've been here on this forum since 2005, and have been caught up in the herp and derp of sandbagging threads. It seems to me that there are only two ways to get rid of sandbagging:

1. Get rid of classifications entirely. Shoot head's up within a division.

2. Have everbody at a major match sign up as UNclassified. Make the first three stages the IDPA classifier. Incorporate those three stages into your overall match score. When the results get posted, make the 4th column over, after stages 1, 2, and 3 statistics, the designation for their true class, MM, SS, EX, or MA.

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Been there was called a sandbagger many times over but yes it is still within the rules. Be prepared to go through this again as you move up. The MD of my local club made my play in Expert when I was classified as a Sharpshooter...however at the major match my classification was the rule. I won Sharpshooter and got the bump to Expert.

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No, you are not cheating, I think they are giving you a hard time, hopefully jokingly.

Where did your score place you amongst the Sharpshooters in that state match?

Where do you normally place against sharpshooters in your local matches?

Some people just don't shoot a classifier very well, kind of like when some people don't do well on standardized tests.

Thanks for letting me know im not sandbaggin....I know my MD and other shooters are just flipping me poop, I can take it. For some reason or another the other day it just struck a nerve and got me thinking.

So to answer a few questions heres the breakdown of the state match.....BTW in 2013's state match i took 4th MM...Regardless of whether I shot ESP or SSP MM I still would have taken 2nd place and got the match bump. My placement of SS in both ESP and SSP is as follows, 12th out of 16 ESP and 16th of 27 SSP. This is where the sandbaggin comes in....

I generally place within the top 10-15 of 50-60 shooters at our local matches. Ive taken 2nd and 3rd place a few times. Most of our shooters are SS with a few EX's and 1 MA mixed in.

I dont seem to shoot classifiers very well. My last one was 144.73 with 107 PD. I honestly feel im shooting SS but im not classified that in SSP. So if I screw up the next classifier, do I shoot state ESP SS and have fun or shoot SSP MM and possibly get a match bump? Or ask for a classifier reshoot? If I shoot it twice and still suck, well then.....I suck.

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First, have fun period. If you want more classifier experience look for surrounding clubs and shoot their classifiers. I would prefer moving up via match bumps rather than classifier scores. To me it means you actually have the match skills that the classifier attempts to measure.

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First, have fun period. If you want more classifier experience look for surrounding clubs and shoot their classifiers. I would prefer moving up via match bumps rather than classifier scores. To me it means you actually have the match skills that the classifier attempts to measure.

There's 2 sides to that coin.

A match bump is just you beating who showed up. I've known some MM ESP shooters that received a match bump at a major match only to get stomped on each week by their fellow SS ESP each week at local matches.

If you beat every MM shooter only to finish bottom of the heap in SS, then it's a hollow victory. Now if you get a bump to SS and you're beating some EX on a good day, then you know your classification is well deserved.

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And further up the ladder, I know people who are MA but can't shoot a MA classifier. Yep, on one particular day they beat 10 experts. But on a generic, everyone takes the same test, they can't shoot a MA classifier. So which is better? I think they're even in 'worth'.

On a personal level I'd say strive to accomplish which ever one is more difficult for you. Always try to test yourself rather than take the easy way out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think you are sandbagging. Your well within the rules. I am a master in SSP and just recently shot my first master classifier, but I have struggled with the classifier in the past. A friend and I decided to practice the classifier in order to score very well. I shot a 76.21 and my friend shot a 104. It was his first classifier as he has only been shooting for about 6 months. So now he is a expert in CCP but struggles to put it all together in a local match as he is still new to the sport and at times gets beat by guys lower classified then him. So rather a match bump or a classifier bump your screwed if you do or if you don't.

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  • 3 weeks later...

A buddy of mine whom I shoot with recently won the FL state IDPA shoot SS SSP with a score of like 399. The MM ESP guy who is from the area and won in FL won MM ESP with a score of like 398. If you're winning the division above your current classification as you win your division, then you might be sandbagging, but unless you were intentionally flubbing a classifier to put you in MM I would say no. Per the rules you only get an equity promotion out of SS if you class as EX in any division, all other divisions are instantly raised to SS.

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Last year, I shot the classifier in SSP in April. I did horribly - MM, though I kept my classification as SS. The fact that my front sight came adrift during Stage 3 didn't help (I hadn't used threadlocker on the Glock's front sight screw -- bad idea).

I practiced hard over the summer. I fixed the sights, did a trigger job. In August shot the regional sanctioned match. I was #1 SS and beat all the Experts.

So, yea, I guess that was sandbagging.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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